MAME - Which version for the new era of TG?

I think any "new" version would be fine. The latest release is .154. That would be ideal.
.106 is a dinosaur and I have no idea why some people continue to use it. Well that's not true I guess it does have a user friendly GUI and a lot of people dont like messing with the command line version.
.106 can contain more input lag compared with newer versions. The graphics are clunky also
TG should definitely pick a version and stick with it. It would be ideal to be able to use any version, but that might cause some headaches for those verifying the submissions. And I guess that too depends on how the adjudication process will work. It may be MARP style.
Wait and see! :-)

Maybe something that runs on Mac too.

another one of those topics where TG will have to evaluate what is successfully working for other online scoreboard communities, in order to find a workable example to stay relevant.


Take a look at the extensive amount of MAME development work that has been done since May 2006. Impressive, and to ignore it would be a certain level of disrespect to the culture of MAME.
http://www.mamedev.org/oldrel.html

another one of those topics where TG will have to evaluate what is successfully working for other online scoreboard communities, in order to find a workable example to stay relevant.

Already there - TG's contribution to MAME was a closed-source version back in 0.35 times. Since then TG has used the work of MARP's Barry Rodewald - AlphaMAME and WolfMAME. TG just rarely "caught up" to the latest.

Barry is the man, and a great guy, too.

if there is a change, there will need to be a transition period, as I, and others have new records using Wolf106, and need to be submitted before anything changes, if it does change.

if there is a change, there will need to be a transition period, as I, and others have new records using Wolf106, and need to be submitted before anything changes, if it does change.

Exactly - I've got a 106 WR performance on ice, just waiting. Anything else would be unfair to those who continued to play and improve our scores during TG's interregnum. -JW

Thinking about it a bit more, I'd prefer having any version of WolfMAME (well within reason - nothing before 0.106 obviously). This would cater to pretty much everyone who has used a new version of MAME over the past few years when we have been unable to submit.

With public verifications, any version of WolfMAME should be possible to use - the "public" will likely notice the anomalies where they exist.

[Edit:] Looks like INPs are not going to be required, according Jace's opinion in a different thread...

With public verifications, any version of WolfMAME should be possible to use - the "public" will likely notice the anomalies where they exist.

Yes, ditto. Or go out and buy a actual PCB.

I've used .106 almost exclusively, mostly because TG required it. I have to admit that I love the GUI as well, but I'm sure I could adapt to running MAME from command line if necessary. WolfMAME .106 was thought to be almost 'cheat-proof' back when it was originally endorsed by TG, but I think we all know by now that if someone wants to cheat, they will. It really doesn't matter which version they used, in that sense. Personally, I think TG should endorse the use of the latest versions of MAME. For those who are more aware of these new versions than I, is it possible to record .inp and .wlf (or equivalent) files with .154? Should twitch / hitbox, etc archives be permitted for MAME verification?

I've used .106 almost exclusively, mostly because TG required it. I have to admit that I love the GUI as well, but I'm sure I could adapt to running MAME from command line if necessary. WolfMAME .106 was thought to be almost 'cheat-proof' back when it was originally endorsed by TG, but I think we all know by now that if someone wants to cheat, they will. It really doesn't matter which version they used, in that sense. Personally, I think TG should endorse the use of the latest versions of MAME. For those who are more aware of these new versions than I, is it possible to record .inp and .wlf (or equivalent) files with .154? Should twitch / hitbox, etc archives be permitted for MAME verification?

Hey Jason

Any version of WolfMAME grants the ability to record and playback. Newer versions don't create a .wlf file however. Everything is contained in the .inp file.

Also, if you are not keen on using the command-line there are a number of front ends available. Some of the guys at DKF (Ross) were talking about one yesterday but I cannot remember the name sorry.

Using a good frontend makes the latest versions of MAME more customizable and functional than WolfMAME .106 ever was. I use EmuLoader and recommend it to anyone looking for a relatively easy way to use the latest MAME.

(click thumbnail to see full size)

I see a few problems here, especially since there's a new adjudication process in the works that proposes more transparency.
First of all, INPs are not videos. You also need to have the correct version of the MAME software to view the actual gameplay.

You can't see who's playing the game with an INP. It could be you, or many people taking turns, you can't tell. I don't think putting your initials at the end of gameplay legitimizes your score. There's no database of associated initials for players and I don't feel players should claim initials. Some games don't have initials. Some players could have the same initials.
What prevents Ulises Sam Anderson to claim a record using the same initials as Billy Mitchell?

There's a lot of incompatibility between MAME versions and their associated INPs.

There are no playback tools to view MAME gameplay properly. Whoever sits to watch the gameplay can not pause, rewind or fast forward, unless they record the actual gameplay using a video recording tool such as Fraps first.

The INP feature in WolfMAMEis a nice feature but it was not developed for official adjudication. I'll find it very unlikely that the new TG will accept submissions via INPs, unless they clearly understand what comprises an INP, and if/how it can be tweaked or altered.

A major advantage of switching to a recent version of WolfMAME is that it makes verifying that correct dip switch settings were used much easier. In WolfMAME .106 if you use Tab to go into the dip switches in the UI on playback you will see the current dip switch settings that you have your PC set to, NOT the Dip Switches used in the replay you are watching. In recent WolfMAME versions a feature has been added that will display the Dip Switch settings that were used when making the replay.

-George

I think if you are watching someones game, you will know the game. you can tell what dips are used just by the gameplay.
Also, who would get someone else to play their game for them? surely the real "player" would want the score recognition instead of the fake player? I can't see how anyone would do this. who would play games for someone else and never be known?

I would say that it is more important to start accepting high-scores again. I assume TG users will explode with already saved INP files from v1.06, and this may create a backlog in the verification process. And I would also expect that TG will accept v1.06 submitters, even if newer MAME version is chosen?

How about making a poll amongst the TG users, with something like: "How many high-scores will you submit when TG starts accepting submissions again?"

I would like to see TG adopt a newer version of MAME for MAME subs provided there's still the same/better anti-cheat measures that the current acceptable version has. I think going forward it would also be important to make note in the database of what version of MAME was used for any MAME subs going forward

One of the major reasons TG never moved forward with MAME (it certainly was talked about multiple times) was all the work and questions involved. Do you combine the scores together? I would imagine so since it was done this way back in the day with version 1.01 and 1.06 and maybe a version before those.

Another problem would be adding all the new variations / games since MAME 1.06- MAME 154 and having to correct all the dip settings that have been corrected or even added in the newer MAME's. One example is the dip settings in MAME 1.06 for Mario Bros. The dip settings were backwards for HARD & MEDIUM and they have since been corrected in the newer MAME releases. This all certainly can be done but it most likely would involve a lot of volunteers or have someone on the side who works on it all week long for quite a few good weeks. It is possible and is most likely needed.

wolf 106 has 7,000 games.
wolf 154 has about 30,000. to not move along with the version would be like only accepting PS1 and PS2 submissions, and not PS3/4 games.
some games don't work well in 106, and desync regularly. It is old and buggy. there's been nearly 50 new versions since, it is 7 years old.
whatever games are in the database should stay on 106.
all new game titles should be on a newer MAME. MARP verifies over 300 different MAMES.
I'm sure TG could do 2, no problem. Maybe when wolf 155 is released, start with that?
:)