• Preview of Twin Galaxies’ Score Submission and Adjudication Process

    Good news! We are rapidly approaching the activation of Twin Galaxies’ new submission and adjudication system!

    In anticipation of this new era of score tracking, we wanted to take a moment and provide a preview of what is to come and allow the community to discuss the new system in more detail.

    This is not intended to be a comprehensive and detailed description of the new submission and adjudication process on a technical level. It is only intended to help users understand how our Submission and Adjudication system functionally operates at the highest levels and explain the general philosophy behind it.

    In the simplest view, the TGSAP (Twin Galaxies Submission and Adjudication Process) is essentially a tightly controlled peer-review system. This means that you submit your score and all evidence you have to support your submission to Twin Galaxies, and Twin Galaxies’ community and organization will review the materials and determine validity. Simple.

    Twin Galaxies takes the subject of validating scores very seriously. The foundation of Twin Galaxies is in record keeping and the records that it keeps must be extremely credible and without reproach – therefore TG has spent many months designing a comprehensive and totally unique adjudication system that maximizes the benefits of a peer-review methodology, while simultaneously eliminating many inherent flaws that a peer-review system can have which undermine credibility.

    To demonstrate our understanding of the problems and concerns associated with a peer-review system, we will discuss some (but not all) of the items we have identified and thoroughly addressed:

    1.) Collusion - This is where multiple users of the system secretly “team up” to deliberately manipulate results and outcomes. There are numerous variations on this theme.

    2.) The value of experts vs. non-experts – This is where people with less knowledge about a subject are participating with people who have more knowledge about the subject and there is no consideration or measured differential in the participant’s contribution to the outcome. Since every ‘vote’ is equal, it becomes possible to come to incorrect conclusions if the uninformed vastly outnumber the informed in a peer-review process.

    3.) Accountability. In traditional peer-review, participants are merely a part of a total group decision and are not individually tied to the outcome. This leads to less motivation for accuracy, personal investment, or interest in the process. Individuals have no vested interest in the outcome, regardless of their choice during the participation.

    As mentioned above, these are just some of the pitfalls of a standard peer-review system. Many record keeping sites today suffer some of these problems and it undermines the credibility of the results that are produced there.

    The TGSAP however, is not a standard peer-review system. It is a totally unique, one-of-a-kind system that sets a new standard in score adjudication.

    Here is how it works:

    SUBMISSION
    Scores can only be submitted by VERIFIED users. VERIFIED users are users that have gone through the Twin Galaxies’ user verification process, and TG maintains contact information on each user. These users are real people, who have voluntarily submitted their identity and personal information to be able to be eligible to be awarded world records and other forms of public recognition for achievement. No new world records will ever be allowed into the TG database without full name and proper contact information. TG needs to know who its participating users are, and the participating users themselves need to know that they are competing with other real and serious participants. All user information is kept private and confidential in accordance with our Terms of Service.

    When a VERIFIED user submits a score, they are presented with a form to fill out. This form specifies:
    Submitting user’s name
    Submission Date
    Platform
    Game name and Track variation
    Score/Elapsed time
    Evidence Description
    Video Upload

    Most of these fields are self-explanatory and were common to the previous Twin Galaxies referee-based adjudication process, however the “Evidence Description” and “Video Upload” fields are new and will be explained below.

    Historically, Twin Galaxies would adjudicate a score by having a person watch a score performance in person live, or by having a person review a recording of a score performance. These methods are very effective, however they also severely limited the scope of score performance presentation.

    In an effort to accommodate the widest number of methods of score performance presentation, the TGSAP has moved to a format that allows user submission of all forms of evidence with a score claim, whatever that may be, with TG simply providing very strong recommended guidelines for submissions in general.

    The “Evidence Description” field is the part of the submission form where you are given an opportunity to explain any details of your achievement that you feel supports your score claim. This field is driven by a fully functional WYSIWYG text editor that is also equipped to allow you to upload pictures, screenshots, and supporting documents. This is an opportunity to build your case of evidence, head off any skepticism, provide insight or simply brag about what you have accomplished. This is the opportunity to provide as much context as you feel you need to help make sure that anyone judging your claim is as informed as possible.


    The “Video Upload” field is where you upload any recorded performance video that you may have of your score performance. This video is part of your overall “evidence package.”


    Twin Galaxies will post recommended requirements for how a score performance should be recorded, and how evidence can best be presented. Twin Galaxies will post its preferred and recommended type of submission. This will help the peer-review community understand the kinds of things they may want to look for and potentially expect when trying to determine the validity of a score performance – however, TG is only making recommendations and it is not required to follow them explicitly to submit a score.

    Whatever evidence you submit is what the peer-review process is going to consider. So it is really up to you to determine what you feel is adequate to present. It’s that simple.

    While Twin Galaxies will recommend that you present a rock-solid case of indisputable visual evidence that leaves no doubt that your score performance is valid, the fact of the matter will be that if you do not want to (or simply can’t) submit a video of your score performance and instead only provide screenshots and other evidence, that is your option and the peer-review process will determine whether or not the case you have presented is compelling enough to be considered valid.

    Once all of your evidence is entered/linked/uploaded, you will click the SUBMIT button and then the adjudication process begins.


    ADJUDICATION

    (Please note – The adjudication system is multi-layered in its complexity. In order to explain it, we are going to describe the user experience first, then discuss the mechanics behind it in the form of Q&A after. Please bear with us.)

    The User Experience of Adjudication -
    When you click the SUBMIT button, all of the evidence you have provided (including video) is compiled and transformed into a stand-alone special kind of forum thread that resides in a forum section called SUBMISSION REVIEW.

    This forum can be viewed by anyone, but only VERIFIED users are able to participate in it.

    The SUBMISSION REVIEW forum will contain all incoming submissions that need to be adjudicated. These submissions take the form of individual threads.

    Your submission thread will contain all the evidence information you provided in a simple and organized view. Your score performance video (if one was provided) is front and center and easily viewable.

    At the top of each submission is a poll mechanism that asks a simple question:
    “Is this a valid score?”
    [ ] ACCEPT
    [ ] REJECT

    All individuals from the VERIFIED community can now review the evidence you presented and cast their vote.

    If when reviewing the evidence, there are questions or concerns, a participating voter can utilize the discussion thread that is part of your submission thread and directly raise those questions or concerns with you and other community members. You are able to respond and participate in the discussion as much as desired. If more evidence is required to satisfy voter concerns, you will be able to add it to the submission thread (however you will not be able to alter the original submission materials) until the voting period closes.

    When the voting period ends, the submission thread is closed and the final results are computed and the score is either ACCEPTED into the Twin Galaxies database, or it is REJECTED.

    If the score is ACCEPTED, the now-permanently-closed-submission-thread is moved to the ADJUDICATION ARCHIVE, under the ACCEPTED category as a permanent record and visible reference of the adjudication – and the newly entered score in the database is hot-linked to this permanent record for all see. As the database fills up with new scores over time, all the scores in the Twin Galaxies database will become clickable, and link directly to the supporting evidence for anyone who is curious about a particular score.

    If the score is REJECTED, the now-permanently-closed-submission-thread is moved to the ADJUDICATION ARCHIVE, under the REJECTED category as a permanent record and visible reference of the rejected adjudication result.

    A submission, whether ACCEPTED or REJECTED, is permanently documented for all time.

    That is the user experience. Very simple and straightforward.

    The Adjudication Mechanism- (Question and Answer format):

    Q:Wait a minute. How are you preventing collusion? If it is just a simple ACCEPT/REJECT vote question, people can just get all their friends to vote one way or the other and win every time!!

    Collusion is prevented by a multi-layered stack of interacting thematic measures:

    Asymmetrical adjudication qualifiers
    Information deprivation
    Emergent vote weighting
    Dynamic Incentivization/Penalization

    Asymmetrical Adjudication Qualifiers (AAQ) –
    At the moment a score is submitted, the TGSAP looks at a wide range of relevant dynamic system parameters (for instance, total submission rate/site activity/adjudication response times/etc.) in order to decide what the specific computational measurement requirement will be for a successful adjudication of THAT submitted score.

    This means that every adjudication is dynamic in terms of what it will specifically require from a voting participant calculation perspective.

    For instance, just one of the many parameters considered by the TGSAP are how many total participant votes it will take to “close” a particular submission. This will vary from submission to submission. It will be impossible for anyone to know this information or predict it.

    Although these computations are dynamic and produce variation, they are all based on a set of algorithms that are unilaterally applied to all submissions so it is fair and consistent. The intention of this computational system is to make sure that peer-review requirements are always in-line with the total activity of the Twin Galaxies website, so that there is always a systemic correlation between participation and adjudication requirements. The added benefit of this method is that it makes collusion extremely challenging, because it is no longer a function of just brute force group voting. Someone seeking to collude will have to develop a system to figure out the algorithms and patterns, and that requires direct experimentation on our system to see how it responds. This testing allows Twin Galaxies to easily detect user accounts trying to do this.

    The bottom line is that it is extremely hard to manipulate what you cannot predict – so a potential cheater/colluder will need to put a ton of effort into figuring out how to predict this stuff.

    And remember, this is just ONE part of the TGSAP. On to the next part…

    Information Deprivation –
    Due to the AAQ, every submission is different from a computational perspective. In order for someone to be sure that a collusion will be effective and manipulate the peer-review process, the parameters of the final computation must be known. For instance, it is pointless to get 10 of your friends together to vote in unison on something if the required amount of votes to achieve a result is 100.

    The TGSAP is designed to obscure any/all computational information when it comes to the voting process. This means:


    • Users never know how many total votes must be cast for any particular submission to “close” and be computed.
    • Users never know or see what other users have voted.
    • Users never see where the vote “currently stands” while the voting period is open.
    • Users never know how long any particular submission will remain open for voting.
    • All of this information and anything else that relates to it is obscured.


    All a user ever sees, is the submission evidence, what THEIR vote currently is, and whether or not the vote is still open or if it has closed. That’s it.

    When a vote finally does close, users never see who voted, how many votes it took to close the vote, OR what other users’ votes were.

    Again, information deprivation adds to the difficulty of any collusion or manipulation – but this only the second mechanism that is at work… below is the next preventative measure…

    Emergent vote weighting –
    This mechanism not only further disrupts collusion, but it also addresses the inherent peer-review issue of the value of experts vs. non-experts – the aforementioned issue where people with less knowledge about a subject are participating with people who have more knowledge about the subject and there is no consideration or measured differential in the participant’s contribution to the outcome. Since every ‘vote’ is equal, it becomes possible to come to incorrect conclusions if the uninformed vastly outnumber the informed in the peer-review process…

    Soon you will see that every VERIFIED TG USER ACCOUNT has a new parameter added to it. This parameter is titled CREDIBILITY.

    The CREDIBILITY scale is from 0 (min) – 100,000 (max).

    All new VERIFIED users will start with a CREDIBILITY of 10.

    To cause differentiation and disrupt vote equality in a peer-review system, TGSAP will factor into its algorithm each participating VERIFIED users’ CREDIBILITY RATING (CR) during the adjudication process.

    What this means is that when you vote on an adjudication, you are voting with your specifically established individual CR within the system.

    When you correctly adjudicate a score, the TGSAP will award you additional CREDIBILITY POINTS for being correct, which in turn raises your CR and makes your vote on future adjudications WORTH MORE.

    However, if you incorrectly adjudicate a score, the TGSAP will deduct CREDIBILITY POINTS from you for being incorrect, which in turn lowers your CR and makes your vote on future adjudications WORTH LESS.

    For clarity, here is a simple example:

    · A user named JOHN SMITH submits a Ms. Pac Man score of 800,000 points. He provides whatever evidence of the score he has, screenshots, a description, and a video performance.

    · You have a current CR of 50.

    · You see JOHN SMITH’s submission and review the materials. Based on what you saw, you believe it to be a credible submission, so you vote ACCEPT, and then go about your business on the TG site (posting to forums, whatever.) The voting process remains open.

    · A couple days later, you see that JOHN SMITH’s submission is still being voted on / adjudicated. You go back to the thread and see several comments below the submission that raise questions about the submitted recording. You think that the questions being raised might be valid, so you decide to change your vote to REJECT, and then go about your business on the TG site (posting to forums, whatever.) The voting process remains open.

    · The next day you come back to the Twin Galaxies site, and see that JOHN SMITH’s submission is still under review and there are even more comments on the submission thread. You read them and think to yourself, I really believe that this score is valid – and so you change your vote BACK to ACCEPT, and then go about your business on the TG site (posting to forums, whatever.) The voting process remains open.

    · A few hours later, JOHN SMITH’s adjudication process closes, and the votes are algorithmically computed, factoring in all of the participating users CR weightings.

    · It turns out the score was ACCEPTED.

    · You receive an e-mail saying “Congrats, you were on the correct side of the JOHN SMITH adjudication! You have received 5 more CREDIBILITY POINTS.”

    · You now have a current CR of 55.

    Generally speaking, the amount of points you can “win” by being correct, will always be smaller than the amount of points you stand to “lose” by being incorrect. So it is much harder to build CREDIBILITY within the system than it is to lose it.

    For example: the CR points acquired from 10 correct adjudications could be theoretically lost by just 2 or 3 incorrect ones.

    This part of the TGSAP is what will allow the experts (people that care) to separate from the non-experts (people that don’t care) over time, and simultaneously make those experts votes count MORE during adjudication than the non-experts.

    Any user that does not put care and attention to their voting decisions so that they are on the correct side of most adjudications, will quickly see their CR drop to 0 and quite literally their vote will not matter within the adjudication computation.

    This system will naturally balance itself and it removes one of the inherent problems of peer-review where all votes count the same. Within the TGSAP, all votes do not count the same, and anyone within the TGSAP that maintains a high CR is someone who has consistently been correct when reviewing submissions. This person has become an authority. Becoming an authority cannot happen by accident.

    Q: But what about people who just take “easy” submissions and try to build up their CR, for the sole purpose of being powerful and then misusing that power to alter adjudications inappropriately??? Or what about people who just build up their CR, and just sit on it and don’t adjudicate anymore???

    There are two active things that the TGSAP does to prevent these issues:

    1.) The TGSAP is always considering the TOTAL VOTING POWER of all users collectively, and generating a system of bell-curves to compensate for a collective rise or fall in the total economy of CR. (INFLATION) So that means that if everyone is always adjudicating correctly, and everyone is getting more points, the relative vote weighting doesn’t change so no one’s vote is worth more than anyone else’s – even though the CR numbers on individual users are all elevated. The key to this system is that the CR considerations are always relative to everyone else’s CR. The “easy submission build up strategy” simply won’t work for the purposes of adjudication manipulation.

    2.) The TGSAP will slowly and lightly tax all user’s CRs’ on a continuous basis. Much like the arcade game GAUNTLET, where the player’s health is always moving down and they need to continuously find food – VERIFIED users that are interested in maintaining their CR must continue to adjudicate.

    Dynamic Incentivization/Penalization
    The nature of the TGSAP encourages users to build and maintain their CR. The more you correctly adjudicate, the more points you receive, the more your voice matters in the process. You cannot buy, cheat or manipulate your way into a high CR at Twin Galaxies. You must earn it, and everyone in the community will know that.

    Through this system, you will be able to demonstrably prove your knowledge and authority in regard to
    video games. Your CR will literally be backed up with documented proof of your track record and decision making. Your authority on the subject will be respected, and it will be deserved.
    No other organization in the video game industry offers you this opportunity. No other organization is comprehensively recognizing achievement both on the player and adjudicator sides of the equation.

    The scores going into the Twin Galaxies database will be the most heavily scrutinized in the world.

    Beyond the respect, beyond the recognized authority, Twin Galaxies will, over time, additionally provide titles, certificates, badges, exclusive access to TG branded collectibles to those members of the community who develop and maintain a high CR. The possibilities are endless.

    All of this opportunity works to incentivize the community to not risk the pitfalls of collusion or cheating of any kind.

    Anyone caught or even suspected of cheating/colluding may be banned from Twin Galaxies for life.

    Q: When CREDIBILITY POINTS are awarded or deducted, how is the amount decided?

    There is always a standard minimum amount PLUS a bonus amount that revolves around a consideration of factors that directly relate to a user specifically, such as how much general participation they demonstrate, recent post count, number of received ‘thanks’ or ‘likes” on posts, etc.

    Participation within Twin Galaxies of any kind is a good thing, and the system will always be looking at the total experience and activity of a user and considering it when determining awards of any kind.

    Again, there is an algorithm and computation here.

    Q: I DON’T CARE ABOUT ALL THIS ADJUDICATION STUFF. I JUST WANT TO SUBMIT MY SCORE. WHY SHOULD I PARTICIPATE IN ALL THIS?

    The TGSAP requires that VERIFIED users that wish to use the system maintain a positive SUBMISSION TO ADJUDICATION RATIO (STAR).

    This means for every score performance that you submit, you must have CORRECTLY adjudicated a certain number of other people’s submissions.

    Please take note of the word CORRECTLY.

    Simply going into the SUBMISSIONS forum and randomly voting in order to “get your vote count up” will not help your STAR. In fact, it will likely damage it.

    The STAR calculation is only looking at adjudication results that you have CORRECTLY called.

    Adjudications are not instant processes, and can take time – so it is recommended that you participate in adjudication as much as possible ahead of your submissions so that your current STAR is more than adequate to qualify you.

    If you want to submit scores to Twin Galaxies and receive the recognition, benefits and status of having a world record entry into the database, then you must be willing to participate and contribute.

    The STAR system is designed to prevent users from abusing the TGSAP for selfish purposes.

    Again, this document is not intended to be a comprehensive detailed description of the new submission and adjudication process on a technical level. It is only intended to help users understand how our Submission and Adjudication system functionally operates at the highest levels and explain the general philosophy behind it.

    Hopefully this has given you some insight, understanding and excitement about submitting your amazing score to Twin Galaxies and being recognized for your achievement!

    SPECIAL NOTE – Jace Hall, Head Custodian of Twin Galaxies, is planning on holding a live candid round table discussion broadcast soon regarding Twin Galaxies’ past, present and future. He will be answering any/all questions regarding the discussion topic. The community is invited to join the broadcast at www.twinglaxieslive.com and directly raise any concern or issue and get straight and direct answers. Please stay tuned for specific time/date and get your questions ready!

    -TG
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    1. Flash IV's Avatar
      Flash IV -
      I didn't see it anywhere, but can we submit scores even if they aren't for the WR, but say for example 28th place?
    1. erockbrox's Avatar
      erockbrox -
      What about racing games or games in general which contain lots and lots of tracks. I know that you must "earn" the ability to submit a score by watching and verifying other players scores.

      So what if someone has 100 short race track times? Could they submit 100 of them at the same time or will have to earn each submission gradually? Really it should be based on the duration of the record. If you earn submissions, it needs to be 1 hours earned, 2 hours earned and so on. It should not be a quantity like you get 1 submission or you get 2 submissions.

      If you do it by the quanity of submissions then long game submissions are the ones which give you the biggest bang for your "buck" while having many short game submissions becomes a never ending line in your own queue.
    1. timmell's Avatar
      timmell -
      Got questions? We will try to get answers for all on a Settle It On the Screen - Live on December 5th, 2014 8:30pm EST / 5:30pm PST joining us will be TG custodian Jace Hall at www.twingalaxieslive.com
    1. starcrytas's Avatar
      starcrytas -
      This whole system has some flaws.

      Someone can upload pictures of their scores and claim they got the score when it could be either photoshopped or cheated or stolen.

      Videos can start mid attempt and could have preloaded cheats to reach the desired area, start recording, and then achieve their score.

      People can be biased towards certain members and join in groups to possibly reject others' scores. Imagine if our currently banned users (you know who they are) submitted a score and the possible debates that may take place. Credibility won't change this much.

      What we need is users submitting a live recording on Twitch, Ustream, or wherever live streaming to record your scores with good quality showing you using a non-modded console loading a non-modded game cart/downloaded game without any cheats or have a Youtube video with good quality showing you using a non-modded console loading a non-modded game cart/downloaded game without any cheats. No splicing or funny business.

      So the days of mailing in submissions are officially dead?

      I still have lots of footage on VHS tapes. I was wondering if I could be able to play the VHS tapes, and then film the footage of the television playing the prerecorded game with a video camera to then upload to the internet for verification? I think there's a way to do this with a 3ds. I know I can take videos with a 3ds, but I've never uploaded anything online in my life. Also, I think the 3ds camera only works for about ten minutes, so would posting like 20 10-minute clips for one single game be something that would be frowned upon?
      Well, Furrer, you need to get with the times. IT'S 2014. The 3DS can record 10 minute videos in an acceptable quality. Then use the SD card to transfer the video to the internet by inserting it into an SD port or a USB stick to connect it to the USB port and upload videos like that. However, that's good enough for short Guitar Hero songs or a quick F-Zero race, etc. There are affordable cameras that you can use for live streaming. No webcam is worth more than $100 for live streaming. There are super simple guides that can be followed for uploading videos to the Internet.

      This goes for everyone wanting to submit scores whether or not this system changes:
      SHOW YOUR WORK. That way others will be impressed by your skill and know that no funny business is going on.

      Though I may be new to the professional gaming community, I know what I am talking about.
    1. starcrytas's Avatar
      starcrytas -
      Highscore.com has a similar system that can cause cheating to go unnoticed.
      Jace, this system has been tried out before and it doesn't seem to work out.
    1. JackBando's Avatar
      JackBando -
      Answer 1 - Video submissions are not a requirement. It's up to the peer-review process to decide if it wants to accept a score that has no video. It doesn't have to. If it doesn't accept what is presented (video or not), then it doesn't accept it.
      I remember in an earlier thread where you compared someone voting similar to showing someone a picture of a car and asking if it was a car. This analogy no longer works. If you show me a picture of a "new world record" is it a record, accept or reject? It does show a new high score and pictures do apparently count now, so accept?... But the old rules never allowed pics, so reject? Or accept? It's now an opinion, how can a record be an opinion?
    1. Jace Hall's Avatar
      Jace Hall -
      I didn't see it anywhere, but can we submit scores even if they aren't for the WR, but say for example 28th place?
      YES.

      Your submission is to be placed in the database - the system will automatically figure out what your rank placement is.
    1. Jace Hall's Avatar
      Jace Hall -
      This whole system has some flaws.

      Someone can upload pictures of their scores and claim they got the score when it could be either photoshopped or cheated or stolen.
      Yes, this is true. When the submissions system becomes available you should try it and see if the peer-review process decides your score is valid based on this evidence and then vote to accept it into the database. If it works, then you are right, that is a flaw.

      Videos can start mid attempt and could have preloaded cheats to reach the desired area, start recording, and then achieve their score.
      Again, this is true. When the submissions system becomes available you should try it and see if the peer-review process decides your score is valid based on this evidence and then vote to accept it into the database. And again, if it works, then you are right, that is another flaw.

      Of course in both of the above cases, whether your score is accepted or not, if the system correctly identifies you as cheating or attempting to cheat in any of these manners you will get automatically banned for life and all of your scores in the database fall into question and get an asterisk. So, if you don't mind the risk and really feel that the above items are clearly system flaws, you may want to test your assertions with confidence.

      I don't think the system is as flawed as you might imply. Actually I would go as far as saying that the system is well aware of the kinds of items listed above and should anyone attempt them, it will always catch it and those scores will not be accepted. The TGSAP will perform as designed. Rest assured.

      People can be biased towards certain members and join in groups to possibly reject others' scores. Imagine if our currently banned users (you know who they are) submitted a score and the possible debates that may take place.
      This is collusion and the system can not be manipulated in this manner successfully. There are numerous guards against this, starting with the a basic fact that these groups will never know how much total voting credibility will be needed to push a decision one way or the other. So, these groups will have to venture into the darkness, all risking enormous credibility hits to their accounts (or life bans) for the sole reason to deliberately adjudicate a perfectly valid score incorrectly and simultaneously attempting to beat a system that by design is looking for this exact behavior - AND they need to do this in front of everyone else who is not colluding with them who simply see a valid performance which they will vote correctly on.

      Attempting to do the above, doesn't sound like a smart plan, but you can feel free to give it a shot and see how it goes of course.

      Credibility won't change this much.
      This statement is not accurate. Your CR matters quite a bit within the total system. I'm not sure if you understood my explanation of vote weighting or not, but rest assured that your CREDIBILITY RATING is important. You should value it and guard it and not participate in anything that might remotely negatively affect it. If someone asks you to collude and you decide to attempt it, you should make sure its worth losing everything.

      The only thing you should concern yourself with as an adjudicator is correctly identifying valid performances. That is the only way you can build your CR. Doing anything else is not going to be a rewarding experience.

      Just imagine spending months building up your CR, being respected for your adjudication track record, having more weight and meaning when you cast your vote - and then someone e-mails you and says they don't like someone and want you to specifically watch a score performance that is clearly valid and then mark it as rejected. They want you to use the hard work and effort you built up to literally deny the reality of what you see sitting in front of your face, so that they can feel better (or whatever.) Remember, you don't know how many people are voting on this adjudication or how much voting weight is being thrown at the adjudication in total. There could be adjudicators in there with huge CR voting CORRECTLY, and you are being asked to go in there and deliberately vote INCORRECTLY when you know everyone else who sees the performance will see that it is obviously valid. What do you think your answer to this collusion request will be?

      On the other hand, lets say that you haven't built up much CR at all and someone wants you to collude with them. You might not care about building your CR so you don't care if you lose it, but do you think that your small CR will outweigh others who are voting and are interested in calling adjudications correctly? Probably not. So now all you are risking is getting caught by the system for collusion and recieving a lifetime ban. Worth it? I dunno, maybe for some. We will see. the bottom line is that low CR adjudicators haven't invested much into the system to develop demonstrable expertise in adjudicating and will therefore have less of a voice within it.

      What we need is users submitting a live recording on Twitch, Ustream, or wherever live streaming to record your scores with good quality showing you using a non-modded console loading a non-modded game cart/downloaded game without any cheats or have a Youtube video with good quality showing you using a non-modded console loading a non-modded game cart/downloaded game without any cheats. No splicing or funny business.
      Well, as someone participating in the adjudication process, you can always state this in a submission thread that you are judging and vote accordingly if you feel that the evidence presented is not satisfactory!

      SHOW YOUR WORK. That way others will be impressed by your skill and know that no funny business is going on.
      I think that you will be very specific and demanding in your adjudication, as you should be. People like you will prevent cheating and make sure that all new TG scores going into the database are as legit as possible. No question!
    1. Jace Hall's Avatar
      Jace Hall -
      Highscore.com has a similar system that can cause cheating to go unnoticed.
      Jace, this system has been tried out before and it doesn't seem to work out.
      Other than the fact that Highscore.com uses a peer-voting concept, (like many other sites) there is no similarity between the TGSAP and Highscore.com's system.

      They function entirely differently from front to back.

      Its like a traditional gas powered car compared to a Tesla auto. Yes they are both cars that can take you places, but they are completely different in implementation and systemic execution.
    1. Jace Hall's Avatar
      Jace Hall -
      I remember in an earlier thread where you compared someone voting similar to showing someone a picture of a car and asking if it was a car. This analogy no longer works. If you show me a picture of a "new world record" is it a record, accept or reject? It does show a new high score and pictures do apparently count now, so accept?... But the old rules never allowed pics, so reject? Or accept? It's now an opinion, how can a record be an opinion?

      The adjudication process is not asking you if you are being presented with a new world record.


      The system is asking you if the score claim that a submission is making is a valid claim. You are reviewing the evidence that is trying to support the score claim. Nothing more. Either you agree that the score claim is valid based on the evidence presented, or you do not. That is all.

      When you evaluate the evidence, items like pictures only count if you think they do. It is up to you to decide what is convincing and what is not. This is where your expertise, knowledge and personal intuition factor in. Either you are convinced that you are being presented with an honest claim that follows the rules and spirit of the game, or you aren't.

      So, yes the analogy of showing you a picture of a car and asking if it was a car still works, exactly as previously stated.
    1. John73's Avatar
      John73 -
      I've got to agree with the comments regarding video submission. Either do it, or don't bother submitting - it's meaningless and without any merit to be considered a world record. Maybe some of the old TG recording guidelines were seen as overkill, but I had no problem complying with them and understand exactly why they were implemented. The only exception to this rule would be MAME where you provide an INP, and again there is no mention of what version will be accepted for this.

      I will be in the camp of people who will immediately reject any score submitted that doesn't have video, and if this means I lose my right to submit my own scores at a later date, then so be it.
    1. Barthax's Avatar
      Barthax -
      The only exception to this rule would be MAME where you provide an INP, and again there is no mention of what version will be accepted for this.
      I'm getting the distinct impression from this thread that the adjudicating community will be the ones to decide whether a MAME submission will be valid or not: version being irrelevant unless the adjudicating community decide otherwise. Empower the people to generate their own downfall. ;)
    1. Barra's Avatar
      Barra -
      MAME will most likely be any version ie we determine if its valid or not. I'd probably be happy with any version of wolfmame as long as there is an INP presented as evidence

      Also agree with John. Any submission without video (mame being the obvious exception) should be immediately rejected.
    1. Barthax's Avatar
      Barthax -
      Also agree with John. Any submission without video (mame being the obvious exception) should be immediately rejected.
      I'm curious, does this include Walter Day being the witness as per recent article?

      Alternatively, does this include live competitions such as Funspot Tourney or King of Kong?
    1. Barthax's Avatar
      Barthax -
      Question on the availability of the videos: will we be able to download the video for perusal by ourselves or will we have to use some web-based concoction only? Many variations require scrutinising the video closely and that won't be easy in a web-only solution.
    1. Jace Hall's Avatar
      Jace Hall -
      I'm curious, does this include Walter Day being the witness as per recent article?

      Alternatively, does this include live competitions such as Funspot Tourney or King of Kong?
      The system is the same for everything.
    1. Jace Hall's Avatar
      Jace Hall -
      Question on the availability of the videos: will we be able to download the video for perusal by ourselves or will we have to use some web-based concoction only? Many variations require scrutinising the video closely and that won't be easy in a web-only solution.
      The videos are received and processed by the Twin Galaxies website and then placed in a special youtube archive that youtube has been working with Twin Galaxies on. Any tool you have that can extract a youtube video will work for the purposes of downloading the video if you need to.
    1. Barra's Avatar
      Barra -
      I'm curious, does this include Walter Day being the witness as per recent article?

      Alternatively, does this include live competitions such as Funspot Tourney or King of Kong?
      Well, that depends if TG is going to have referees in an official capacity. We shouldn't take people's word for it just because we know them or because they have been around for a while.

      If TG does not go the route of official refs, personally I'd want a video, which also shows the dip switches
    1. RTM's Avatar
      RTM -
      Agree that no one, regardless of prior accomplishments or dedication to the hobby, should be given a thumbs-up based on no performance proof whatsoever...even if the performance is not a world record or even close to being one.
    1. Ripper's Avatar
      Ripper -
      Looking forwarding to all of this!
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