NES Zapper / Light Gun Performances

Hey Ben,

There have never been any rules about distance from the screen. Some score submitters have even stated that they held the gun up to the screen for their run. There was never a required distance set into play, because the light gun actually reads better from a distance. So even though it may seem better to hold the gun to the screen, you're actually hindering yourself. But, some people will stand by the "holding the gun up to the screen is better" logic. I know Tom Votava prefers some distance, and I do, too. This is the "old TG" stance though. Some people may want to set a minimum distance now. My vote is, whatever distance you want. I played a ton of light gun games and I can say with certainty, some distance is better. For a game like Duck Hunt, which only has "enemies" on screen (so it's open for the "light gun trick"), you have to record yourself in the frame, so you can be seen firing the gun. Other light gun games that have non-enemies on screen (Hogan's Alley, Freedom Force, to name a couple) , you wouldn't have to record yourself in the frame, if you preferred not to. Anyone else, feel free to chime in about distance.

Thanks for the input Terence!

I'm planning to record two feeds for these submissions - one that shows the TV, console, light gun, and myself as a "player cam" and one that's zoomed in on the TV or maybe direct capture from the console. I'll likely be seated so it should be easy to get a good steady shot of everything.

I hadn't thought of the difference in light gun games where there's only enemies vs. enemies and non-enemies that you have to avoid shooting. It makes sense. It's so interesting how the light guns work I learned a lot doing a brief research today before posting this. Pretty cool stuff.

It's so interesting how the light guns work I learned a lot doing a brief research today before posting this. Pretty cool stuff.

Definitely. Easily my favorite NES peripheral. It's gets the job done nicely...Unlike the Power Glove. Cool concept, but it never worked properly....

14256'........He got the BAD part right! :D

I thought the gun games weren't even in the high score database

https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.p...67&ref=fbshare
https://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.p...91&ref=fbshare

Those two are Duck Hunt 1 Duck and Hogan's Alley game B. Both are active (not grandfathered/retired) and it looks like they can be submitted to. The rules specify use of video camera which isn't a problem in this day and age, and is kind of assumed to be needed, but otherwise rules are standard.

Since I'm planning to submit to at least Duck Hunt and To The Earth as soon as I can, here's the plan:
1. One webcam zoomed in on the TV screen (this is the game play shot)
2. One webcam backed out so you can see me seated in front of the TV (this is the player shot)

Distance I intend to sit from the TV (depending on where I get the ol' CRT setup) should be about 5 or 6 feet. It is my personal opinion that that is a sufficient amount of space between the gun and the screen to preserve the spirit of the game.

Depending on when the new baby comes, this may wait a month or so, but if it's a little late and I get this weekend, it could be done then. Thanks everyone for looking and discussing.

Please voice any ideas about the webcam setup and the distance between TV and gun. This is a discussion I believe is well worth having.

We cant change rules of an old track unless its verification method. You know, we cant change distance rules as thats unfair to knew competitors, we could however change camera rules since thats about verification as opposed to game play. If someone wants a distance rule implemented they need to create a new track

I am NOT saying it should be added to the rules. I'm saying I'd like to know what everyone thinks is a fair distance from the TV.

I am NOT saying it should be added to the rules. I'm saying I'd like to know what everyone thinks is a fair distance from the TV.

Thats a tough one, so open to opinion. How far away is a couch typically from a TV? I guess I'd be pretty happy with 12ft. Another question, is this, do you definie distance based on your feet to the TV? or the zapper to the TV? Taller people with longer arms, should they have to stand in the same place, or stand further back based on how front the zapper is?

or do you make it a formaula versus a distance? A large TV for example the same idstance as a short TV is easier to aim for. If the TV is twice as large, do you have to stand twice as far back?

The critical distance is how far the gun is from the TV not the player's body. You bring up valid points about the size of the TV. Keep in mind that all zappers have to be used on CRT TV's so they won't be THAT big compared to modern TVs.

12ft - can you envision yourself standing 12ft away from a TV with a wired light gun to the NES and being able to reach everything? What I'm saying is when I think about standing 12ft away from a TV with a controller, I think about yanking the NES off the shelf and seeing it crash to the floor at about 8ft.

I believe 12ft to be excessive. That's one man's opinion. I also don't think it needs to be so complicated as measuring the height of the TV and scaling the distance accordingly. Maybe this is the question I need to ask:

What's the minimum distance you think one should be (from TV screen to zapper) to preserve the integrity/spirit of the game?

It's already been said that previously accepted submissions had no distance requirement. I'm not trying to add a distance requirement. I just want to see what people think about this whole thing.

The critical distance is how far the gun is from the TV not the player's body. You bring up valid points about the size of the TV. Keep in mind that all zappers have to be used on CRT TV's so they won't be THAT big compared to modern TVs.

12ft - can you envision yourself standing 12ft away from a TV with a wired light gun to the NES and being able to reach everything? What I'm saying is when I think about standing 12ft away from a TV with a controller, I think about yanking the NES off the shelf and seeing it crash to the floor at about 8ft.

I believe 12ft to be excessive. That's one man's opinion. I also don't think it needs to be so complicated as measuring the height of the TV and scaling the distance accordingly. Maybe this is the question I need to ask:

What's the minimum distance you think one should be (from TV screen to zapper) to preserve the integrity/spirit of the game?

It's already been said that previously accepted submissions had no distance requirement. I'm not trying to add a distance requirement. I just want to see what people think about this whole thing.

I"d have to set it up too see, its possible I'm imagining distances wrong in my mind. Whatever the normal couch distance is though, i'd say is whats normal for the zapper. You normally play sitting on the couch other games, the gun games you'd sometimes sit on the couch, sometimes stand, but stand pretty close to the couch, walking to close to the tv considered lame. So i guess i'm just replacig one question for another, my question would really be "how far is a couch typically from a tv" and whatever the answer to that is, is what my answer to the lightgun distance would be

or do you make it a formaula versus a distance? A large TV for example the same idstance as a short TV is easier to aim for. If the TV is twice as large, do you have to stand twice as far back?

Just throwing this out there.. If you use a very small TV, like a 13 inch, your gun hand has to travel less distance to aim for the next target. Is that an advantage? There's an NES light gun game record holder who mentioned that that's what he used and found it much easier. But who knows. It can get silly trying to cover every aspect of legitimacy with this, ya know?

Since I'm planning to submit to at least Duck Hunt and To The Earth

Nice. Not many people heard of To The Earth. It's one of the best light gun games for the NES. Good luck on your record attempt.

Agreed - To The Earth is terrific but gets swept aside by Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley as the more notable light gun games for NES. There are lots of them - Bayou Billy I've never played with a light gun (certain scenes) and Laser Invasion by Konami can be played with controller, laser scope, or light gun. I own them both but stink at them.

Bayou Billy, by the way, is a very "progressive" game for its time and is also challenging. It gets mad respect from me.

Agreed - To The Earth is terrific but gets swept aside by Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley as the more notable light gun games for NES. There are lots of them - Bayou Billy I've never played with a light gun (certain scenes) and Laser Invasion by Konami can be played with controller, laser scope, or light gun. I own them both but stink at them.

Bayou Billy, by the way, is a very "progressive" game for its time and is also challenging. It gets mad respect from me.

Bayou Billy was the one game Captain N. could never beat

Oh Bayou Billy is definitely a challenge. I tried the light gun on it a while back. It was cool, but I prefer the game without it. "Gotcha!" is an awesome game, too. Actually, there really isn't a bad light gun game. You ever play "Shooting Range" before? I played the hell out of that game. It would seem like I would have a perfect game, but I couldn't get higher than 29,000. The record is 43,300, so I must be missing something.

Never heard of Shooting Range. I'd better get hunting for these titles.

Thankfully lots of the light gun titles are cheaper nowadays (that I've seen) probably due to a decline in CRT TV usage. I've seen Gotcha! for $5 and looking up Shooting Range it looks to be under $10.

Here are some more good ones that haven't been mentioned already..

*Barker Bill's Trick Shooting

*Chiller -The aiming learning curve may put you off (and the price), so passing on this one might be recommended. Just had to mention it, as I find all the blood 'n guts awesome :)

*Wild Gunman -Just for Game C. The A and B game variations are super easy.

Ok I'm putting up a couple runs on Duck Hunt this morning. One duck and clay shooting. I had a go at To The Earth this morning before work (it's Earth Day after all) but that's a considerably more challenging game I think. Terence I respect your WR on that one a lot.

My runs can definitely be improved on but I need a LOT of practice before that happens. Plus I'm using a 12" TV as it's my only CRT right now and I've never played a zapper game on a TV that small. It may not make much of a difference.

Distance was a good thing. It's easier to play when your hand motion can be more subtle.

We'll see how it goes with Operation Wolf this weekend.

I had a go at To The Earth this morning before work (it's Earth Day after all) but that's a considerably more challenging game I think. Terence I respect your WR on that one a lot.

Earth Day..Very fitting. Thanks, Ben. Yea, TTE is pretty hardcore. You want a tip? You have to go F-ing crazy with the light gun :D I actually needed a new gun after my run. The trigger felt weird and the site was off. That game is a gun-killer!

Subtle movement is a good thing, apparently. Yea man, hang in there. Practice makes perfect. Looking forward to watching your scores. Good luck!