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Max

01-11-2018 at 11:51 AM
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Combining PSN to PS4

I didn't want to derail the jrok conversation with this so I'm posting it here.

@Marcade I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that PSN and PS4 play differently and should not be combined or are you saying they play the same and should be combined?

I can't say that I have ever played both versions of any game on both platforms. I mean I'm sure I played some trials on PSN that I ended up buying, but I wasn't ever focused on game play differences.

I can say that I need a PS4 to play PSN games (assuming the PSN games are made for PS4 and not PS3).

It make no difference to me really other than if they play the same, it would be better to combine the two for ESI. I would defer to you or the other PSN/PS4 players to quantify if there is a difference.
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  1. Marcade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    Back to PS4/PSN, all the TPA players just received an automated upgrade a day or two ago. I would hazard a guess that every single TPA upgrade for all users, disc or not, contain identical data per game and system.
    I would STRONGLY assume so, eh? You already adjudicated some of mine and RaGe's PA "season 7". Do you see any difference with a disk?

    I am 100 % pure download. Cannot speak for the format on how RaGe uploaded (who now has a lot of catching up to do on this thread!!!! Heh ;) His Championship Soccer plays just like mine! (Table achievements/Goals) pop up on the bottom left corner now.

    The new patch reflects this across the board now for all seasons.
    Likes Barra liked this post
    Updated 01-11-2018 at 02:20 PM by Marcade
  2. Max's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade
    I would STRONGLY assume so, eh? You already adjudicated some of mine and RaGe's PA "season 7". Do you see any difference with a disk?

    I am 100 % pure download. Cannot speak for the format on how RaGe uploaded (who now has a lot of catching up to do on this thread!!!! Heh ;) His Championship Soccer plays just like mine! (Table achievements/Goals) pop up on the bottom right corner now.

    The new patch reflects this across the board now for all seasons.
    For clarity, I am saying we all have the same identical game files. All of them play the same. There is no difference. I'm all for combining PS4 and PSN as everything (for games made for PS4) is identical.
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  3. Marcade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    For clarity, I am saying we all have the same identical game files. All of them play the same. There is no difference. I'm all for combining PS4 and PSN as everything (for games made for PS4) is identical.
    I can only vouche for games that I know and play. Just like what you and everyone else plays.
    I have yet to meet anyone out there who has owned/played EVERY single download out there. I dont think its possible. (Even the ones in Japan that we dont have access to, only they do)
  4. Marcade's Avatar
    Another thing... "add ons" to a lot of PS4 released disc games are only downloadable on PSN.
    (More exclusive games within the games itself)

    eg. I have already downloaded, created, and submitted with Batman Arkham Knight.

    Its like trying to stab with a knife every "ant" you look for in a farm field. (You aint getting, nor spending money on every single download in the universe, that you either dont want, nor care about)
    Updated 01-11-2018 at 02:34 PM by Marcade
  5. Max's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade
    Another thing... "add ons" to a lot of PS4 released disc games are only downloadable on PSN.
    (More exclusive games within the games itself)

    Its like trying to stab with a knife every "ant" you look for in a farm field. (You aint getting, nor spending money on every single download in the universe, that you either dont want, nor care about)
    I'll admit, I didn't buy the glow ball. :D
  6. Marcade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    I'll admit, I didn't buy the glow ball. :D
    I assure you, playing these tables in the dark setting with the glo-balls is like a whole new game in itself! Try it out. $3 well worth it!


    NO, these shall not be individually tracks! :P
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  7. Ninglendo's Avatar
    You kids and your glow balls.
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  8. Marcade's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo
    You kids and your glow balls.
    Once you play GhostBusters pinball in the pitch dark, along with the bright shine of a green slime ball, you NEVER WILL Go back!!!! :)
    Thanks Ninglendo thanked this post
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  9. MyOwnWorstEnemy's Avatar
    My best guess is that the PSN platform came about to mirror the Wii virtual console, since it came out first. It was a preemptive move to categorize emulation of classic games, played on modern consoles; updated hardware. It may have made sense at the time to differentiate a game like Paparappa the Rapper played on PS1 from the version played on PS3, Paparappa the Rapper PS1 Classic.

    Overtime, Sony's strategy became clearer in that it was its PlayStation Network as an electronic distribution channel for new games specific for the console, in addition to the classic releases. Given that, I'd view PSN as a distribution medium and not as an emulator-like console.

    Currently if I'm creating a track for a new game, I select PSN as the platform only if I don't think its distributed by physical disc. If its available for download in PSN and physical disc, I choose PlayStation 3 or 4. I'm not sure if that is how it was intended but I think this is where we are at.

    Most (if not all) of the physical discs purchased and run on the PS4 usually are supplemented with some patch to fix bugs known or discovered after the games release date. With every patch and update, the disc acts more as a key to begin the game and less about the actual software run (unaltered) to play the game. A patched version of the software loaded from a physical disc and patched version from an electronic download will both lead you to the same exact version.

    My view is to combine PS4 PSN with PS4 and PS3 PSN with PS3. It creates less clutter and reduces the risk of someone creating multiple game / tracks for the same game due to different distribution methods.
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  10. spectre's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnWorstEnemy
    My view is to combine PS4 PSN with PS4 and PS3 PSN with PS3. It creates less clutter and reduces the risk of someone creating multiple game / tracks for the same game due to different distribution methods.
    This so much. And while they're at it do the same for the wiiware, virtual console and xbox live arcade for the repective systems. There's already an instance where Robotron 2084 has a track for the version released on Midway Arcade Origins (X360) and the version on Xbox Live Arcade.

    Now, regarding MAME and Arcade. I can see the two being combined into arcade but as seperate leaderboards.

    If you click on Donkey Kong there will be a seperate track there called MAME. I haven't come across a game in MAME that plays 100% like the arcade counterpart. The real deal usually runs at weird refreshrates while MAME runs 60hz all the time.

    I've heard good things about GroovyMAME but haven't tried it myself. I don't know if GroovyMAME runs at the correct refreshrate?
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  11. RaGe's Avatar
    I'm the one who made the PSN platforms.

    I'm gonna tiptoe outta here..

    Carry on!

    lol.

    Nah. For a while now, I've thought that it wasn't necessary to have them separated. It's all Playstation, and I believe it's all the same, whether it's disc or download.
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  12. Desidious's Avatar
    Actually, to be a little more confusing.

    Xbox live.

    Same game from the original Xbox or Xbox 360 is being rereleased in the Xbox live as toted as "backwards compatibility". This also goes for a lot of other games on the Playstation Network as if you have a Playstation Vita, they have released game from the PS1 era to be played on that system plus the PS3 and PS4.

    What say you to that?
  13. Max's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious
    Actually, to be a little more confusing.

    Xbox live.

    Same game from the original Xbox or Xbox 360 is being rereleased in the Xbox live as toted as "backwards compatibility". This also goes for a lot of other games on the Playstation Network as if you have a Playstation Vita, they have released game from the PS1 era to be played on that system plus the PS3 and PS4.

    What say you to that?
    I say I can't speak to Xbox live.

    I can say what others have said: anything made for the PS4 should be tracked as "PS4/PSN."

    If one wants to play a revamped PS1 game that was revised for the PS4, they can make a track for it under PS4/PSN.

    If you use the PS3 to play it, it would need a track for PS3/PSN.
    Likes MyOwnWorstEnemy liked this post
    Updated 01-12-2018 at 08:45 AM by Max
  14. GibGirl's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious
    Actually, to be a little more confusing.

    Xbox live.

    Same game from the original Xbox or Xbox 360 is being rereleased in the Xbox live as toted as "backwards compatibility". This also goes for a lot of other games on the Playstation Network as if you have a Playstation Vita, they have released game from the PS1 era to be played on that system plus the PS3 and PS4.

    What say you to that?
    I don't think your comments on Xbox are quite clear here.

    We have the original Xbox, which can no longer connect to the Xbox Live (XBL) service. All games there are on disc.

    We have the Xbox 360, which can still connect to XBL. There are Xbox 360 disc games, many which can also be purchased digitally on XBL. There are also "Xbox Live Arcade" (XBLA) games, which are smaller games, and originally weren't released on disc. However, that didn't stay that way, as there ended up being compilation discs with multiple games, some games that were big enough that they released on disc as "Xbox Live Arcade" games (Plants vs. Zombies or Minecraft, for example). And then a few oddities such as the Namco compilation, which has like 5 XBLA games on it, and a bunch of other arcade classics. The compilation isn't treated as it's own game on the service - only the included XBLA games show up on a gamer profile.

    Regardless, Xbox 360 full retail titles and Xbox Live Arcade games are really more a marketing distinction than anything else. There were size limits, gamerscore limits, and some additional requirements that the games had to meet, but nothing technically different. An XBLA game only runs on the 360. All this is why I say to combine the two.

    The Xbox 360 can run many original Xbox games through emulation. Insert the disc and play the game - and you can do that offline. Nothing needs to be downloaded for it. There are definitely compatibility issues in some games.

    Now, we have Xbox One. There's no more concept of "arcade" vs "retail" games. All games are available digitally on XBL. Some are available as retail discs, and I think there are a couple that have some sort of retail package to give people physical goodies, but only include a download code to get the game itself - I've heard that's how Cuphead is.

    The Xbox One runs a number of Xbox 360 games, plus now a few Xbox games. None of those games do backward compatibility via typical emulation - you need to download a version of the game to play, even if you own the disc. The disc is just an ownership check - none of the content runs from there. Now we even have some 360 games that are enhanced for Xbox One X, showing that it's clearly not running the same code as on the 360. The original Xbox games also have visual improvements, though not nearly to the same level. But it's still some sort of recompilation/emulation mix that uses new executable code.

    I am not opposed to allowing people to play Xbox/Xbox 360 games on Xbox One for purposes of TG scores. I'd prefer it, since it looks better and the Xbox One controller is my favorite among the three systems. But as I've said in the XBLA Aegis Wing submission in the submission queue, I want people to understand how it works and make a deliberate choice that this is acceptable. Or that it's not.
  15. Barthax's Avatar
    For TG, this splitting of "platforms" all started with Xbox - long before HDMI was even an option for any console...

    The original Microsoft Xbox had the Xbox Live service which permitted the download of additional content if you owned the original game. This lead to some serious discussion on whether this content was different than the game. Thankfully, original Xbox platform remained intact and didn't get split.

    The Microsoft Xbox 360 was released a year ahead of PS3/Wii and arrived with online-only games under the Xbox Live branding. As Microsoft was willing to split the branding of the games, TG followed suit. Made life easier for the competitors too: how to source a game was included in the platform.

    Cut to now & the lines are blurred: PS4/Xbox One (dunno about Nintendo) games are available for download as the primary source and many are also available on disc. Heck, if you buy an older game on disc the chances are you'll have to download the entire game as patches anyway...
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