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Snowflake

01-11-2018 at 06:01 PM
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Lets talk about Intellectual Property

Its come up in a few threads in response to me, and its worth discussing even if I wasnt being insulted for getting the info correct.

now, i'm not a lawyer, but as someone who needs to follow laws and deals with IP I need to understand it. So nothing i say should be taken as legal advice but rather should be points to verify yourself. I of course welcome any corrections if i am wrong. Also, IP is fairly complicated, so this is just a summary for the bare minimum we need to know to not get in trouble

Copyright vs patents -- This one can confuse people. As with all IP, you're not owning the idea, but the right to sell the idea, the semantics there seem small, but they make a big difference. Patents are for things which are created from the idea, such as a process or a machine. Copyrights are the right to sell idea itself such a book's information.

how does this involve video game playing? A pacman pattern would be something like a patent. Your video of you playing pacman would be like a copyright situation. You cannot patent game play, anyone can you use your tactics, you can however copyright your video of this. Think of a video of someone walking down the street, the film maker owns the video itself, but the film maker cant patent the walk. Or think of boxing, you're free to use all the moves those are owned by noone, but you cant just copy footage of the match and sell it, the footage itself is owned. So dont be confused, the fact we cant patent gameplay does not mean performances arent copyrighted

Fair use.
oh boy, this could go on for a long time with different judges even disagreeing. Plenty of detials to discuss here. Its almost impossible to perfectly define and theres plenty of grey areas for judges to figure out. There are several things that can make something fair use (meaning the copyright doesnt apply) but the one that comes up here is the clause that allow for informative purposes. This does NOT mean you can just copy an entire educational book, since you're sharing it for information, otherwise all non-fiction would be impossible to copyright. As with the other fair use clauses, you must add something of your own. Just saying "im sharing this copy of a movie with you so you'll know what the movie is about" is informative, but wont really count for fair use. You could however take a clip, and then discuss that clips affect on society. Where judges have to deal with a headache, is exactly how much has to come from you before its fair use.

If you copy an entire movie, but only have 1 minute of your own analysis is that fair use? probably not. If you share a one minute clip but talk for hours is that fair use? Probably. What if you copy a five minute clip and talk for 10 seconds? you get the idea, no clean cut answer. But when you provide zero info or analysis and simply copy verbatim and pass along the copyrighted work thats not covered.

On a personal note, IP has been debated with some saying it helps progress (the winning side so far) but some putting forth a claim, backed by some data and logic that while it encourages some innovation it actually discourages more. I'd actually prefer IP laws not exist as the losing side has won me over, and my own info I freely share, however the law is the law and i follow it. So while I'll freely share any of my work I do think its important we respect others right to not have theirs shared so freely.

I hope this helps explains whats going on in other threads. I've looked into the matter alot, Im pretty sure I'm right, but I definitely welcome informed disagreement
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  1. Max's Avatar
  2. Max's Avatar
    Here is a more friendly site. These are good questions but there are no fast answers.

    https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/
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  3. Max's Avatar
    And perhaps more immediately relevant (though I've never read through this site):

    https://creatoracademy.youtube.com/p...s-zippy-link-1
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  4. Snowflake's Avatar
    Thanks for the links I picked up my knowledge between work and reading individual court cases I never went directly to the source though. Much appreciated. And no please don’t copy and paste the entire contents.
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  5. datagod's Avatar
    I worked for 5 years for one of the larger IP Law firms in the world. "Original works of authorship" such as literary, dramatic, musical, artistic and other intellectual works are all protected automatically by copyright.

    As such, the copyright holder has exclusive rights to do the following, and grant permission for others to do the same:

    From ARSNY:


    • To reproduce the work in copies or phono records;
    • To prepare derivative works based upon the work;
    • To distribute copies of the work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
    • To perform the work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
    • To display the copyrighted work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work; and
    • In the case of sound recordings, to perform the work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.



    So what does this mean? The uploader of the video submission owns the copyright. Somewhere in the terms of service of Youtube I am sure you are granting them permission to use and host the content. You are NOT transferring ownership.

    You are also NOT granting permission to third parties to download and distribute the copyrighted works. Youtube also states that as a viewer, downloading any content is strictly against their terms of service.

    There is no question. Downloading videos from Youtube is a copyright violation of the original works owner, and a violation of terms of service of Youtube itself (of secondary concern).
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  6. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    A Patent is legal ownership of a "design" for a tangible item - so it wouldn't apply here.

    In order to be granted a patent in North America, you need to provide a copy of your design, and prove that your invention has a 'unique' purpose or a 'unique method' for the use of the product.

    The most fun example of a granted patent for me, is the PEZ dispenser. Patented as a unique 'candy dispenser'.

    I had a friend who worked in the patent office in Canada.
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  7. Snowflake's Avatar
    You can also patent processes, not just tangible items, however, I agree nothing here we do in our game play can be patented. My point was, the fact it cant be patented shouldnt be twisted as some word game to try to trick people into thinking it cant be copyrighted.

    Patents dont apply here. Copyrights do. To try to use the facts patents dont apply to trick people into thinking copyrights dont apply is the deception i was trying to counter.
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  8. Max's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake
    Patents dont apply here. Copyrights do. To try to use the facts patents dont apply to trick people into thinking copyrights dont apply is the deception i was trying to counter.
    If that was one of your goals, consider it achieved. I wasn't aware that anyone was trying to deceive you, though I miss many posts.

    As far as patents are related (and I have very little experience with patents), an interesting patent is a Wizard of the Coast patent on collectible trading card strategy games.

    https://www.google.com/patents/US5662332

    I bring this up as I wonder how many new game "styles" have a patent (if any). For example, and a question for @Jace Hall out of general interest: was H1Z1 the first to create that style of game and if so, do you hold a patent for it? Can video game styles be patented? I would guess yes based on the WotC patent above, but again, I don't know the answer to this nor have I researched it.

    Do creators of games similar to H1Z1 have to pay a royalty per unit sold or download sold? Or, if H1Z1 was based on an existing game, are you required to pay royalties per unit?
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    Updated 01-12-2018 at 11:36 AM by Max
  9. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    No one is deceiving you Snow :)

    Copyrights should apply to gaming videos. 100%
  10. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    Very interesting Max !! Thanks for sharing! This patent is on a "method of play" for a trading card game.

    (Not trying the deceive anyone) - I'll just note that this patent is for the invention of a new game - not a method to beating an existing game.

    I will also reiterate that I agree 100% with Snow, that our videos should have implied copyrights when we upload to TG, YouTube and Twitch - and although there is no precedent for copyrighting a strategy to beating a game, I think it would be an AWESOME idea to do so as well.

    Imagine using the "Snowflake Method" for beating Arcade Tapper - that would be AWESOME !!
  11. datagod's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Intellivision Master
    I will also reiterate that I agree 100% with Snow, that our videos should have implied copyrights when we upload to TG, YouTube and Twitch - and although there is no precedent for copyrighting a strategy to beating a game, I think it would be an AWESOME idea to do so as well.
    The copyrights are not implied, they are automatic and protected by law. Terms of use, however, may stipulate that you are granting permission of the website to copy and use your work as they see fit.

    In the specific case of people downloading another member's Youtube video, then uploading it to TG as evidence, that is a clear violation of the copyright act. A DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) notice can be filed against TG by the original owner of the work, and immediate compliance would be required.
  12. Max's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by datagod
    The copyrights are not implied, they are automatic and protected by law.
    This is correct and may be independently verified for anyone with doubt by looking at copyright law.
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  13. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    What I meant is that we don't sign individual contracts for every video that we upload.... like a recording artist would.
  14. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    That's what I meant by the term implied.

    I'll never learn my lesson !!!!!!

    :) :) :)

    There's absolutely no point in contributing to threads.

    Let's all just congratulate Snow and Data every time they post a thought.

    :)
  15. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    Snow, go ahead and delete my post again.

    One thing you have to get used to as a budding journalist is that you have to accept people's opinions. You have a hard time listening to an opinion that differs from yours.

    I have no idea how I tried to deceive anyone.

    You posted a public post and I threw in a thought. My mistake!!

    Just place a notation on your posts that say:

    "Please do not add to this thread".

    It's much easier.
  16. Max's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Intellivision Master
    What I meant is that we don't sign individual contracts for every video that we upload....
    Yes. Essentially everything is swept into the TOS.

    I believe YT has an exclusive right to distribute once you upload. But this too is easy to confirm by reading the YT TOS (I've only glanced at a while back).
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  17. Snowflake's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Intellivision Master
    Snow, go ahead and delete my post again.

    One thing you have to get used to as a budding journalist is that you have to accept people's opinions. You have a hard time listening to an opinion that differs from yours.

    I have no idea how I tried to deceive anyone.

    You posted a public post and I threw in a thought. My mistake!!

    Just place a notation on your posts that say:

    "Please do not add to this thread".

    It's much easier.
    ive been on the road to Illinois and am just catching up on all this now. I deleted no posts. I’m definitely hearing frustration on your tone if that frustration comes from something I said please elaborate but if it comes from a deleted post that was not my doing
  18. Snowflake's Avatar
    If @admin staff deleted any posts I’d appreciating them saying so so that I don’t get blamed for it
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  19. Snowflake's Avatar
    Rereasimg searching fir anything else that may have offended you. The deception was comment was not about you it was about before this thread started and why I started it. The detail of processes being patented that we disagreed on was not something I’d classify as deception on your part
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  20. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    Snow, I appreciate your explanation. I thought you were talking about me !

    Yes, I had a post deleted last month - no idea why - it's ok !

    Again, I appreciate your post!

    I'm getting ready to tune into SIOS - last show. I'm heartbroken that the show is ending. I always felt that the show was an extension of "what we do" here at TG.

    I look forward to seeing the gang and Todd and William tonight.

    It's all good !!
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