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Intellivision Master

01-12-2018 at 02:05 PM
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RULES FOR ATARI SUBMISSIONS

Not that I'm getting an Atari any time soon, but as the months went on here at TG, the Rules for console gaming has seemed to change as we went along.

For example, ROM's were a source of debate when I joined and soon after, a large percentage of subs use ROM's i.e.) Harmony Cart for Atari and LTO Flash for Intellivision and Everdrive for Sega.

Also, the TG Rules state that "only original controllers can be used for console submissions"; then members stated with certainty that Sega controllers may be used, and Turbo-mode controllers may be used for Atari subs.

Also, the 2600 and the 5200 and the 7800 have been used for Atari VCS/2600 submissions - is it acceptable to use a more modern Atari console to submit a VCS/2600 game?

Before I look into buying an Atari (which would be a loooooong way away) .... can Atari players please explain what is permitted and what is not permitted?

It seems like the Wild-West - Anything goes !!
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Comments

  1. TB-303's Avatar
    If you're not playing on an original Atari 2600 console, it'd probably count as emulation unless the chips inside are exactly or very similar to the original hardware.
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  2. Rogerpoco's Avatar
    I'm not sure why Sega controllers are accepted, Vectrex is very specific about controllers, and I think it is one of the things that set TG scores on the system apart from other places.
    Possibly reliability, but we now know that VCS controllers are readily available.
    I think I have a score or two with a Sega controller, Survival Run, a Sky Jinks track, but I really think not using a VCS stick is a disadvantage, the games just cooperate better with it.

    Hardware-wise, I do think the 5200 and 7800 faithfully play the games properly(tho I am not certain), if so I think that is more ok than using a Gameboy Player(Gamecube, play GBA on TV with full size controllers)for GBA subs.

    The roms have been around, truly. There are Vectrex tracks that go back several years that could only have ever been played on flashcarts, and 2600 EMU scores date back many years, all using roms.
    I remember what you are talking about, tho, someone did try to raise an issue with rom use, but I don't think it got support, the guy may have even left TG for a while because of it.

    I try to throw my controller up into my videos to "be seen", when I remember(is a must on Vectrex subs, I just got used to it), and I actually think that may be the solution to "controller issues".
    Just allow anything to be used that can be used on a system-the controller MUST be shown, and the community decides if it was used for a technical advantage(not good)or a comfort advantage(probably ok).

    At this point, I'm just kinda rambling, but wanna help address this as much as possible, because...
    Al? Atari?
    I'm intrigued.
    You're gonna tick me off if you buy an Atari, Man.
    Because I've got one ready to box up and send to you the second you want it.
    :)
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  3. datagod's Avatar
    This is why I say that we need a community driven rules section, possibly a WIKI. The rules would be recorded and searchable in one easy area, referencing precedent setting adjudications as necessary. Any rule changes would have to be accepted by the community. A complete edit history is preserved as well.
  4. CWK's Avatar
    Don't think a turbo controller can be used for Atari as it never came with one. A turbo controller is allowed on the Turbo Grafx though
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  5. Rogerpoco's Avatar
    I.M. and I have had a conversation about this-if TG would let the actual gamers be a little more helpful/involved, we could possibly get these things sorted out quicker.

    Excellent idea, Data, definitely something to be explored.
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  6. thegamer1185's Avatar
    (My spirit is posting this, I'm not actually here)

    Pretty sure all of this ties into this thread I posted about the TG rules and Policies needed a major update with all of this information.

    Notice how much it got commented on.
    http://www.twingalaxies.com/entry.ph...ating#comments
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  7. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    Thanks guys.

    I would swear that I see the 5200 model being shown or the 7800 model for 2600 subs.

    Here's a recent submission for an Atari game - What console is this?



    Another question:

    On one player's Space Invaders games, an adjudicator said "I see you're using a turbo shooting controller - and it's permitted". Is there a 2600 turbo shooter? Or is it aftermarket?

    Are the original, 1977 controllers out there functioning well? Or do I have to buy OEM replacement controllers? And are they the exact same? Todd said something like "the newer ones are less springy".

    I'm asking these questions b/c if I ever do try an Atari game here and there, I don't want to be out of the loop.

    One thing that gets to me is that in order to get to the top of the leader-board, you have to double-sub on EMU - playing every game twice :) I don't know ... it seems redundant.

    What does get my interest you ask? Being an Intellivision guy, I didn't know the Atari games that well, and you guys have been showcasing a handful of games that I think I would enjoy. Not all 500 ... but I'm sure there's a dozen games that I would really enjoy.

    The other thing is ... there's much more popularity on the Atari than the Intellivision at TG... and I'm on the cement sipping lemonade while you guys are swimming.
  8. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    Sorry - I mis-quoted.

    An adjudicator stated to the player "The Double Shot method is acceptable" for a space invaders sub.

    I thought he was referring to the controller? No?
  9. TB-303's Avatar
    That's an atari 7800 without it's silver thing: must of fell off or someone took it out at some point.

    The double shot in space invaders is a bug where I think you can turn the console off & on quickly and you'll be able to do 2 shots instead of one
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  10. Rogerpoco's Avatar
    I'm one of the biggest ones to double-up on hardware/emu, most others only seem to do it on games that are important to them, to be fair, but I'd be a HUGE fan of separating EMU and hardware entirely, it makes no sense to me at all. MY X-Arcade Decathalon ESI shouldn't count as much as Greg's runs with hardware sticks, period.
    On the opposite end of that-my 59.61 on Grand Prix hardware 1bb took a day or so-EMU took almost a week!
    Point being that I love both, but hardware and emu aren't the same, I support your question mark there.

    I live in the middle of nowhere, but somehow in just a few months I have managed to amass many original 2600 joysticks, they aren't too hard to find.
    The best bet is to do that, and learn to take them apart(scary at first, simple soon after).
    They DO eventually break down, with high-level gaming, but if you are comfortable swapping pieces out, having a "good" stick at the ready isn't a problem.
    I don't know about modern-made controllers much, but I did get a flashback 8 a few days ago(on sale, 17$, or I wouldn't have, lol!), and the controllers...stink.
    Thank goodness you can plug a real controller in. :)
    Old School or No School!
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  11. Snowflake's Avatar
    I didnt realize a 5200 was allowable, but the old rule (which in my opinion was terrible but we have to honor history) is that you could play the games on any official sytem. so atari 2600 games can be played on atari 2600, 7800, and theres even a coleco vision adapter you can play atari on. These are all allowed. If atari releases a new system (it has to be atari, not some unofficial clone) that allows you to run atari 2600 carts, then sadly, we' have to allow it. This doesnt mean flashbacks are allowed, flashbacks dont play the old carts. I know stupid rule, but have to be fair to new players, if old players could play on the coleco vision adapter then fair is far have to let new players do the same.

    There is one solution, if you make a new track, you can explicitly rule these things out in your track. Use the track creation to make better tracks. That way we can respect the past on preexisting tracks, but still evolve into the future with new and better tracks.


    rapid fire controllers are allowed as long as you dont use the rapid fire.
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  12. Snowflake's Avatar
    @Intellivision Master thats some model of the atari 2600, i think it might be the japanese one. it might have even been called the 2800 or something weird. but its not a 5200

    as for space invaders double shot, thats not a controller, its a hack/glitch. rapid fire wont help you on space invaders as you can only fire one shot at a time, and mashing the button any faster will do nothing. there is however a glitch you can abuse to allow you to have two shots on the screen at a time.
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  13. TB-303's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake
    @Intellivision Master thats some model of the atari 2600, i think it might be the japanese one. it might have even been called the 2800 or something weird. but its not a 5200

    as for space invaders double shot, thats not a controller, its a hack/glitch. rapid fire wont help you on space invaders as you can only fire one shot at a time, and mashing the button any faster will do nothing. there is however a glitch you can abuse to allow you to have two shots on the screen at a time.
    Atari 7800

    atari 2800

    The 2800 has buttons in the middle which are not there in the picture Intellivision Master posted. If you remove the flashy grey part with the rainbow stripe in the middle of the 7800, it will match the picture 100%. It's a 7800 no doubt.
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  14. RaGe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco
    Vectrex is very specific about controllers, and I think it is one of the things that set TG scores on the system apart from other places.
    There are controllers out there that have a faster firing rate than the original(modified Genesis controllers). Rather than adding the "Original Vectrex Controller Only" rule to just shooting games though, I saw it as an opportunity to keep the playfield equal, and added it to all of the games. That was a while ago when there were only a few scores for the Vectrex, so it worked out well.

    Using a Sega Genesis controller on the 2600 gives an advantage on some games. Even more so, using some non-Atari joysticks gives an absolute advantage when it comes to hitting the directions fast. But, anything that's compatible has always been ok to use.

    It's the wild west, Ricky!
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  15. Snowflake's Avatar
    Thx RaGe, I always knew you were one of the good early ones. I wish the other systems were under the control of people like you.
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  16. Intellivision Master's Avatar
    LOL...

    Thanks guys !!
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