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Can anyone get a Million Pts.on MS.PACMAN?

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    Can anyone get a Million Pts.on MS.PACMAN?

    Can you use a modified chip so there is no kill for Ms. Pacman?

    Questions: to Chris Ayra,Billy Mitchael,Darren Harris,Tim Balderos,Ron Cocorran,Stephen Krogman or anyone else who are expert Ms.Pacman Players.

    1.Can anyone get a million points on either the original or celebrated 1998 classic edition (Ms.Pacman,Galaga & input coded Pacman) of the Ms. Pacman game which has continues on the new 1998 Namco 20 yr. reunion classic edition of the game.


    2.What is the most boards & points ever completed on the original Ms.Pacman and what were the players names & when did they do it?

    2a.What is the most boards ever completed & points scored on the NAMCO 20 YR. REUNION CLASS MS. PACMAN, Galaga, input coded Pacman arcade game (came out in 1998)?

    3. When do the the ghost stop turning blue on Ms. Pacman on what board?

    4.How long do the ghost stay blue after Ms.Pacman eats the energizers (power pellets) is it the same as in Pacman?

    5.What are the characteristics of each Ghost input please?

    6.What are the timing intervals for the ghost (monsters) changing directions on each board?

    7.What happens to each ghost when Ms.Pacman eats a power pellet namely what direction do they go?

    8.What is the maxium amount of points that can be scored on Ms.Pacman for 133 to 150 boards?

    9.What is the most boards ever completed for the Namco 20 year reunion of the game MS. PACMAN which came out in 1998,
    with the following games on it, Ms. Pacman, Galaga, & a input code to play Pacman as well as having continues while retaining your score?

    10. :idea: Is it possible to score a million points on the 1998 version Namco 20yr. reunion Ms.Pacman because of the continues? You could die intentially & redo the same board over & over therefore be able to score a million points, I may be wrong, I'm just guessing? :) :?

    Happy New Year
    from your fellow gammer JJT
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    Re: Can anyone get a Million Pts.on MS.PACMAN?

    ahh, time to play 20 questions ehh? hehe
    Quote Originally Posted by jjt_defender
    1.Can anyone get a million points on either the original or celebrated 1998 classic edition (Ms.Pacman,Galaga & input coded Pacman) of the Ms. Pacman game which has continues on the new classic edition of the game.
    Given no one has accomplished this yet it isn't likely but certainly is numerically possible....you just need very good fruit to come out for you and eat all the fruit. I'm sure with the fruit probablities explanation given at web sites from the code someone good in statistics could perhaps calculate the probablity of getting good enough fruit to reach 1 million. It might be a rather small number, but still possible. My guess is it would be in the 0.1% or even 0.01% range...meaning if you played 1,000-10,000 games to the kill screen, 1 or more or none of those might be 1+ million. Given no player will ever play it that many times and reach the kill screen that many times, it seems unattainable....that's assuming the player has absolutely no control over what fruit comes out.

    Do we have any statisticians in the house that can tackle this and calculate that probability?
    2.What is the most boards & points ever completed on the original & celebrated edition of Ms.Pacman and what were the players names & when did they do it?
    A few have reached the kill screen(board #137). The game ends at the kill screen...hence the name. Chris Ayra has done it a few times with his high score and world record being 920k. If you look at the TG record listing for mspac here at the site you will also see Darren Harris and Rick Fothergill at 910k each. I'm guessing both of those also reached the kill screen. All scores below those top 3 likely didn't reach the kill screen unless they didn't eat very many monsters at the beginning or miss a lot of fruit.
    3. When do the the ghost stop turning blue on Ms. Pacman on what board?
    Blue times on each board in mspac exactly match what original pacman has. You get blue time on the first 16 board. No blue time on the 17th board. The monsters reverse on an energizer hit on boards where they don't turn blue just like pacman. You then get 1 sec blue on the 19th board, the first brown junior board. That's the last blue board. If you count boards you will find that matches up with the 6th key in pacman...the last board they turn blue in pacman.
    5.What are the characteristics of each Ghost input please?
    6.What are the timing intervals for the ghost (monsters) changing directions on each board?
    7.What happens to each ghost when Ms.Pacman eats a power pellet namely what direction do they go?
    8.What is the maxium amount of points that can be scored on Ms.Pacman for 133 to 150 boards? JJT
    Most of these can easily be answered for you by visiting the following site.

    http://gamesmuseum.tripod.com/games/msp ... acprj.html

    This is a decent reference for newbies to mspac and to a degree a handy reference for even mor experienced mspac players. I didn't get much from it except the likely score at the kill screen assuming totally random and equal probability fruit. Some of the info there isn't entirely accurate but it does answer most of your above questions. With other studies it has been shown the probabilities for each fruit aren't quite the same. You will get more cherries and strawberries and peaches versus the other fruits.

    Now for max points that would mean getting a banana for every fruit from board #7 on. So a true theoretical score could be like 1.8 million. However given the probabilities of the fruit the most realistic probable score at the kill screen assuming they ate all the monsters and all the fruit is right in the 910-920k range. This exactly matches the top 3 scores for mspac TG has on record. You certainly can get higher though if you get better than than the statistical average fruit.

    There are 2 fruit every board and 129 boards of "random" fruit so 258 fruits. That's a big enough sampling that the probabilities for getting better than even 5-10k more in points from the fruit versus the statistical average isn't even that high. I am interested in how many games Chris Ayra played to the kill screen before he got that 920k score.
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    Ms Pac Pickles

    I have seen the game play 8 "kills screens" or up to 141 screens when in Key West in February 1985.

    Some of the kill screens the monsters turned blue; I distinctly remember this with the Blue Jr mazes.

    2 deuds from Tennessee were scoring in the 890,000 range at an Arcade right down the street from Sloppy Joes.

    I thought I was doing good at 317,000 on first man.

    I would say player that scored 920,360 had a prime number for the pickles that he received...namely 43; if he played 137 mazes.

    I would also speculate that 6 pickles in a row was the best the player encountered during the game. But what do I know? I am a Ms. Pac-Wus.

    920,360 is what is shown on scoreboard.

    This is for sure: He had to have konged everthing through 1st 7 (120,760) and konged all rest of boards with nominal blue.

    Master Rick, If you score in the 930s............. well

    One thing I did notice about those guys from tennessee........the longer they took to clear the slow mazes it seemed the higher points they got:
    (1,000 2,000 & pickles).

    I wonder if these 900,000 games are played at a faster pace than when these guys were in the 820s 830s and upward as they perfected their perfections.

    I bet they are playing in just under 5 hours; Jr boards can be done pretty quickly.

    The boys from tennesse played at 9 hours to get to kills... the 890 games were not kills.....but theywere pulling pickles.

    Master Rick,

    Play the game and get in the 930s.

    :D
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    Re: Ms Pac Pickles

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOilZone
    I would also speculate that 6 pickles in a row was the best the player encountered during the game. But what do I know? I am a Ms. Pac-Wus.
    Are we talking about the same game? Ms Pac-man doesn't have pickles. :P
    The boys from tennesse played at 9 hours to get to kills... the 890 games were not kills.....but theywere pulling pickles.
    There you go again on the pickles. hehe

    I certainly know what you are talking about though. The golden ones are the best!

    Given, you have gotten 317k on your first man before you should go ahead and set your own MAME score for mspac. The MAME scores for mspac aren't that high. It's harder than with the arcade game though cuz of control. It's far easier to control with a joystick on the arcade version then keys in mame. Hard to do those wiggles and the reflexes you have in the arcade to turn the joystick the opposite direction to get away at times just doesn't work for keys. I often end up just turning right into them from pressing the wrong key in my quick reaction.

    From playing pacman a lot recently though I improved quite a bit the past few weeks controlling with those cursor keys.

    I have my sights on mspac after I'm "done" with pacman. :P

    Man, those 6 dots are really out and about...you just have to know where they are. :P
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    Re: Ms Pac Pickles

    Rick,

    Any closer to the kill screen yet in Pac-Man? What's your best score after the 6th key?

    I haven't been able to play it for the last couple of weeks. Trying to get over the flu. I might give it a couple of tries today or tomorrow.

    Once you get used to the controls in Pac-Man, believe it or not it really helps in Ms. PacMan turbo. I only scored 150,000, but it was the first time I played it at that speed. I was able to make those quick turns at full speed with not much of a problem.
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    Re: Ms Pac Pickles

    Quote Originally Posted by artz
    Any closer to the kill screen yet in Pac-Man? What's your best score after the 6th key?
    My last game I had 334,800 after the 6th key(perfect is 340,400) and was even still on my first man. My best after the 6th key is 336,400 which was the game prior to this one.

    Anyway, I was getting sicker from a cold my last attempt on the New Year's Day as I was playing that so once into running 9th key patterns I just wasn't able to stay focused enough to run it so was making lots of mistakes....still managed to get just over 3 million....had only about 25 boards left to reach the split-screen. I only needed 20 more boards to beat Neil's MAME score...so so close.
    I haven't been able to play it for the last couple of weeks. Trying to get over the flu. I might give it a couple of tries today or tomorrow.
    I don't think what I have is the flu...but is some sinus infection thing. I'm actually getting over it now(I hope). I actually had enough energy today to go out to the store and get some groceries(needed to anyway cuz little left I wanted to eat). I actually got a solid 9 hours of sleep last night...my first real sleep in 4 days. I started 1 pacman run yesterday but died on the 1st galaxian so stopped....I hadn't missed a monster to that point but could tell no way I had the strength yet to be able to endure that long of a game. I might be where I'll start runs again in a couple more days. I figure with my progress each run it will only take 2-3 more attempts to get 3.3+ mil. I just need to have the strength to endure a 5-6 hour game.
    Once you get used to the controls in Pac-Man, believe it or not it really helps in Ms. PacMan turbo.
    I have already played a lot of the various mspac-turbos and mschamp so was already quite decent with cursor keys for control...but doing these pacman runs has helped me even more cuz you have to often do these quick wiggle/flick type moves. It might be a while before I get back into the fast-versions. I have decent scores for several of them but only submitted a couple to MARP. I should submit all of them I guess but I know none of them are my best which is why I haven't submitted them. My turbo mspac score is 423670 although I have only done 2-3 runs of that.

    I feel anything short of the kill screen for that isn't my best so I won't submit for that until I reach the kill screen....like how I'm not submitting pacman scores until I reach the split-screen.

    This pacman thing is just a nice warmup for mspac. I was practicing mspac slow boards 1-1.5 months ago when you asked me if I had ever gotten to the split-screne in this forum...which in combo with a friend had me starting to try and do that....then it turned into learning how to eat all the monsters. I want to get this pacman score done so then I can work on mspac. I don't really have the kill screen in mind there. I'm not that good at it...but think I can maybe reach the MARP score challenge by Neil.
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    1M Plus - Possible, But...

    Hello Juan:

    IMPORTANT - this reply is not for the purpose of calculating the odds of getting a million, but rather to assist gamers via providing a means to reach an illustration of what a 1M game would appear to be

    Logically, since the game has the potential to award points in excess of a million, odds are that sooner or later (most likely later), someone will get a million, and will be solely due to an odds-defying favourable fruit distribution. Since the best players routinely achieve perfect games or perhaps missing maybe one fruit or ghost, at most, the difference of course needs to be picked up in terms of fruits.

    We have calculated numerous times on these forums what the likelihood was of getting a million. Rather than dredge up the old arguments, suffice it to say that it's not something that a gamer knows in advance that they will achieve, nor could they. Rather, it's almost like a form of lotto, in which the odds are very against you.

    I once calculated, and illustrated, what the odds are of getting all bananas...yes, one gamer was steadfast in maintaining that until a gamer gets all perfect bananas that their achievement can never be called a perfect game. Needless to say that such an event probably won't happen until our sun burns out.

    As for the million, if you take the time to "guess-timate" what a million point game MIGHT resemble in terms of fruit, rather than calculate the odds or likelihood of getting the million, let me suggest the following, as it will perfectly illustrate what a 1M game would have to be...if you can get past the odds issue. After all, this thread is less about the odds of getting 1M than what 1M would look like.

    1st - determine the sum of all dots, energizers and perfect munching of ghosts

    2nd - determine the sum of the fruits thru the end of board 7

    3rd - add them up...and I'm sure this has been done before

    4th - subtract from a million

    5th - determine the number of remaining boards after board 7

    6th - divide the difference of 1,000,000 less value in 3rd above, by the value of number of boards left in 5th above...this is your threshold of points to attain per stage to reach 1M in terms of fruit values (combined, mind you).

    7th - humour me here and multiply this value by 5, to represent the sum of fruits across 5 stages...now round to nearest 500 points for precision purposes (100 is too small)...trust me, I majored in math

    8th - keep an open mind that this is for illustrative purposes only, and makes no claims to what the game's odds actually are...that is not the purpose of this exercise

    9th - now then, you have achieved a certain number. As I do not know what this calculable number is, I'll just pick a number for illustrative purposes...let's say that across the 5 stages (see 7th above), you need to achieve 20K in fruits...that's quite a bit !!

    Okay...let's take that assumption above...mind you, that is not the real value but rather serves as an illustration.

    Across 5 stages, there are 10 fruits. The average to maintain is 2,000 per fruit, or 10 pears. Obviously an all-pear game is just as impossible as an all-banana game. Therefore, as part of the exercise, we do the following in this sequence, so you can appreciate how this method works, and then apply it to the CALCULABLE number which I am sure can be determined after enough people provide the value. Again, this is based on the 20K illustrative assumption above.

    Step 1 - Let's suppose that barring all pears, which is a non-issue as stated above, we expect to get just one (1) banana out of the 10 fruits. That leaves 9 fruits to make up 15K in points every 5 stages, just to keep pace with the 1M game...again, these are illustrative assumptions so you can practice with the real value once determined.

    Thus, 9 fruits worth 15K means 1,666 per fruit, or better than 5 pears and 4 apples...not very likely, so let's go to step 2 in our quest.

    Step 2 - Let's assume you need at least two (2) bananas. That means 10K in bananas, and 8 fruits to make up the remaining 10K in points. That averages 1,250 per fruit..better than before. That is 2 pears AND 6 apples, or 3 pears, 2 apples and 3 preztels...in other words, you are still very top-heavy and make no allowance for the possibility of low-end fruits. Thus, 2 bananas per 10 fruits after end of stage 7 is just simply not enough to guarantee a million, as that would require a very top-heavy fruit game across the board. Let's try again...

    Step 3 - Let's now assume three (3) bananas per 10 fruits. MUCH better...that means that you have to make up just 5K across the next 7 fruits...a tad more than 700 per fruit. And very reasonable to expect to achieve this ON THE AVERAGE and not based on actual game performance. Remember...this is for illustrative purposes and not based on the game's actual tendancy for distribution.

    Okay, 3 bananas could mean that your 7 are...1 pear, 1 apple, 1 pretzel, 2 orange, 1 strawberry and 1 cherry...that's 5K even, by the way.

    ANALYSIS (PHASE I) - in the hypothetical example above, I illustrated how to "guess-timate" what type of distribution would be necessary to achieve and maintain an average threshold to get to a million. As you can see, unless you are counting on a game with only fruits valued at 1K and over, which is not likely at all, you have to factor in at least some of each of the lower-tier fruits.

    That being said, you would need to average, in the sample above, THREE (3) bananas per 10 fruits in order to average 20K every 5 stages in fruits alone after stage 7.

    ANALYSIS (PHASE II) - So now that you know the general logic used to achieve at this hypothetical number, arrive at the real number and follow-suit. Whatever that number is, you should be able to come up with your own evaluation on what the average likely distribution would have to be to get to 1M.

    ANALYSIS (PART III) - What's next, you ask ? Well, you now do the reverse. Play worst-case scenario and estimate that out of every 10 fruits, 2 are cherries and 2 are strawberrys. Thus, in my hypthetical 20K per 10 fruits for maintaining a 1M threshold (assuming ALL other points are earned), you would need the remaining 6 fruits to pick up just about the entire 20K in points, as the 4 smaller fruits when combined only add up to 600 points.

    For 6 fruits to make up 20K, if only 2 were bananas then even if the remaining 4 were pears, you could only get 18K.

    In other words, no matter WHAT you do, in the hypothetical scenario above, whether you start off top heavy or bottom heavy, at least 3 bananas per 10 fruits are necessary to make 20K per 10 fruits on the average...period !! This is mathematically indisputable, and does NOT (again) care too much about the machine's actual tendancies, although the bottom-heavy theory still holds true.

    FINAL ANALYSIS - Okay, you've seen how to do this...now try it with the real numbers and see what you come up with.

    My goal here is to make you see that a 1M game is only possible under very favourable circumstances across over a hundred stages and two hundred random fruits.

    Now if you were to next calculate the odds of how many games would have to be played to meet these circumstances, then determine that each game would be 5 hours, and that at most only 6 or so people even CAN do this, you can then determine how long it would take if just these 6 people played 24 hours a day, 7 days a week forever until done.

    Bottom line is that the odds dictate that it would take too darn long !! So, getting 1M is widely regarded as a very special and monumental event in the history of competetive video gaming, and probably a once in a lifetime achievement for the individual involved.

    I hesitate to calculate the odds on the same player doing it twice, so we won't even go there...same for a team playing doubles each hoping for 1M. Just not gonna happen !!

    Well, I hope you had fun reading this, and even more fun arriving at your conclusions. I'm curious myself as to what the sum total of the random fruits are and how many mazes have random fruits, then I'll come up with my own real calcs and we can compare.

    Until then, game on !!

    Robert
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    Given all of that Robert(BTW, nice going in Pandora's Palace...you'll have me playing that again! :P), is there a prize for someone that hits 1 million? or let's say even a new WR?

    In slow-board practicing I have been doing I have almost always averaged somewhat above the statistical average for fruit.....that's playing about 25-30 boards worth so maybe not quite enough of a large sample for the law of averages to catch up with me but the last 3-4 times I played 20-30 slow boards in a practice session afterward I calculated my per-board score and was about 500 points above that average per board. Over 118 non-blue boards that's 59k more in points if I actually can maintain that fruit average.

    Let me put it another way like you did. The last 4 sessions playing 20-30 boards each time I have not averaged below the statistical average. All your calculations are assuming the player has absolutely zero control over what fruit they get.

    That's all i have played though and was 2-3 months ago. I'll get back into that soon I hope. Even then I'm not that good where I've got any chance of reaching the kill screen...especially in MAME. No one has gotten that far in MAME. It's much harder to control with the keys....but I like that challenge...although I'll have to play the arcade one too...got to find a good one around here somewhere. :P

    I can't believe they are playing the entire game in only 5 hours though. That's awlfully fast. That's less than 3 minutes per board. Given the early boards eating all the monsters takes much more than 3 minutes per board, that means once to the slow boards they perhaps are completing each of those in around 2-2.5 minutes!?!?
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    RE

    No one has gotten that far in MAME. It's much harder to control with the keys....but I like that challenge..
    probably wrong... I guess there are those that has reached the killscreen in mame.There are no killscreen uploads at marp (except fast version), but that does not mean that someone has not done it. The key/joy problem is an issue, but it does not make it impossible.. no way. You also have to consider the possibilty that there are people that has not submited due to that they are afraid that their strategy might be revealed.

    Remember that MAME is spread over the whole world, and Marp and TG is just two small places that contains high scores/World records.(yeah compared to the whole world it is so)

    Just my opionion

    QRS[/u]
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    Re: RE

    Quote Originally Posted by QRS1
    I guess there are those that has reached the killscreen in mame.There are no killscreen uploads at marp (except fast version), but that does not mean that someone has not done it.
    That would really surprise me....cuz there are only a handful of players that have ever reached the kill screen. All of them are familiar with TG. I would think if anyone had reached the kill screen in MAME they would have submitted it to TG. I can understand them maybe not wanting to submit it to MARP...but why not to TG?

    The high scores for mspac in mame at Mark's page is 485k....a long long distance from the kill screen. The top 4-5 scores on that page are all by guys that have posted really high scores on the arcade version and a few I know have reached the kill screen....yet they have only set scores from 270k-485k.

    Given that I seriously doubt anyone has reached the kill screen in MAME.
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