New World Record on "Zookeeper" (Arcade) !!
Mitch makes very good points and I agree totally.
Unfortunately, per CAGDC talk John is not of the same contextual view.
Indeed, the person that inspires through their strategical leadership will be the one heralded as the champ.
Much like the Swedish phenom, Mikael/MOS, playing extreme settings Defender (with Motorhead in the background, no less) That YT vid has single-handedly molded a whole new culture of players and continues to inspire.
BUT...not everyone around the planet agrees, so be it.
Fixed that for you.
Originally Posted by 1500points
he he, rock on.
with exceptions for sure. Take Defender TGTS, that's a baiter hunting track and the top score was done with baiter hunting. The community of players doesn't embrace that track or technique, hence the Defender players herald Johnny Mac as the champ due to his visible YT recording of a performance. A non-baiter hunting score that is higher was recorded, but lost, so the champ factor sticks with John. nothing black and white in the world of freely shared multi-media and a zillion places to share the info.
We all know there simply needs to be two tracks for this. Even though baiter hunting is looked down upon it's still hard to do for so long with limited lives. Just have two tracks where you can hunt and where you can't. Everybody should be happy, right?
Originally Posted by 1500points
Stephen K. Boyer
Former Twin Galaxies Sr. Referee
Mario Bros. 2-Player Team: 1,517,380 ( Arcade Medium World Record )
Mario Bros. 2-Player Team: 788,970 ( Arcade Medium NO POW World Record )
Mario Bros. Single Player MEDIUM 4,260,210 ( MAME World Record )
That's a great score, good for you.
Responding here, because people on another forum are responding to something I said in this thread about something said in this thread.
(The following quotes are from John Petric, unless otherwise specified)
All I was referring to was whether or not you would be privileged with sole credit as to strategies. The context of my statements was intentionally not about who has the highest score. This seems to be why you don't get what I'm saying.
I don't get it. A leaderboard is ALL about the scores. It's NOT about who can get the most credits.
I'm not doing this for the sake of "credits". I'm doing this for the sake of "the score"
Yes, they will have to figure out strategies on their own. All that is is a premise to my larger point about who can claim credit for strategies as coming from themselves and themselves only.
LOL...yeah they will. That's what real competition is all about!
No, that is only what a certain type of competition is about. It is my opinion that there is a more ideal form of competition than the sort you fancy, as your sort of competition does not push people to their highest potential.
The move you've laid claim to is the simple idea of steering animals. Even a moderate gamer who is playing ZK for the first time can see this sort of simple observation, but you not only took the opportunity to give such a move the name "the John move", you also seemed to imply that Ross copied the idea from you, here:
What am I missing here, Mitch?
What have they figured out?
What methods of theirs have I "laid claim" to?
The other thing that has changed in Ross gameplay, is his use, as i pointed out before, of the "steering the animals" method......let's call it..... "the John move" 8) I demonstrated that move years ago, also in the "30M jump video"!
People do not have to have a higher score than you to be better than you at a facet of the game. People also do not need to be consistently getting higher scores than you to consistently be better than you at certain facets of the game. It would be a fallacy, and not the best form of cognitive thinking, to believe simply having the highest score at a game means you have the most mastery over the elements of a game relative to other players -especially in a game with a scoring system such as ZK.
GIVEN that these games are deterministic, why the hell would i copy anything they do? That would just send me right back to when the best i could do was 40M. I'll stick to the inputs that i have developed = regular 70M+ scores! How's that for "cognative" thinking, Mitch!
I showed no disrespect. All I did was make an obviously true claim (that I think even you ought to recognize is truthful and accurate) and expound upon it. If any disrespect was taken, it must have resulted from a misconstrual of my argumentation.
Demonstrate some respect Mitch. You WILL get it back!
Mark Alpiger said:
I commented in response to something in this thread, hence why I posted here in the first place.
Mitch, I'm surprised you're posting over there about things that you're referencing here. And, John is over here... why post (at least in detail, as far as concerns) there ?
Mark also said:
See above example.
Anyway, as John queries, what has John supposedly laid claim to that's not his ? Anyone can say anything, but without examples, it's all hot air / BS.
The following quotes are from John Petric unless otherwise stated:
Fair enough. You can have that opinion. But that's simply addressing my main observation of how someone who does not share tactics also does not get the privilege to claim to be the originator of those tactics within a community that shares them by saying "I don't care about that sort of thing." Again, that's fine if that is how you feel, but it does not invalidate my claim -if that's what you were trying to do. If that wasn't what you were trying to do, then I don't understand why you even addressed the point in the first place.
As I said...."who cares"...it's NOT about "credits"
Red Herring. Dean was simply calling attention to the application of the steering of animals in that once instance. However, you've used this as license to name any sort of steering of animals as a "John move" -which seems to imply that no one has ever figured out this strategy without your help.
No it's NOT, I was specifically talking about the move i made in the 30M jump video. Here is what Dean said about that move.......
"However, the most interesting part obviously is when he turns the corner on the upper left side, he bags a few fast animals and a snake and then quickly reverses and repositions himself so that the fast animals pop out counter clockwise and the snake pops out clockwise -- without this it may have been more like a 2 million point jump."
Why the hell would he say that it was "interesting" if everyone was already doing it? That is not a move that a new player would use!
BTW Mitch, you haven't told me what they have "figured out"
No. It's actually really easy to figure out on your own if you are intentionally trying to dissect the game (which most serious gamers do).
Yeah, it's easy to see when you are watching someone doing it. It's NOT so easy to "see" when you've never seen it before! (when you have to develop it)
How is this achieving what you seek? No one that seriously plays ZK that I know took you serious for a second in naming the move that, since they knew it was bogus for you to seek credit for figuring out that one may steer the animals.
Yeah i did...i was taking the p*ss out of all you peeps that like to over-rate strategical "credits" !
And, besides, strategical credit being over-rated in your eyes is only your opinion -since it is derivative of the fact that you also have a different opinion of what constitutes the most ideal form of competition (as you made clear earlier by calling my ideal an "opinion" -which it is).
No. Ross and Dean did not steal the idea of steering the animals from you.
Yeah.......and so did Dean!
No. You miss the point of my argument. The point is not that one may infer that someone with a lower PB on a game is the best player at that game skill-wise, but, rather, that one may not infer that the person with the best PB is automatically the person with the best skill at the game.
I agree Mitch. I'm sure that by your logic, you will agree with me, that i have more mastery over the elements in Donkey Kong than Dean and Ross!
So, do you think I am being disrespectful? If so, does that make it true?
There you go again......just because YOU "think" something is true, it doesn't make it "true" .
Then why argue? or why not simply get a TG account and PM me about it? There are very simple solutions that you seemed to have side-stepped to bring about an actual public exchange on this issue.
Mitch, stop trying to turn this, or Shawns thread into a drama-fest. I don't like argumentation.
I decided to just edit into my original post so as not to keep adding new replies/comments ad nauseam. No need to contaminate this thread with lots of individual responses about something you, more than anyone, is taking issue with.
Now, Mitch....be sure to go contaminate Shawns thread a bit more with your reply to me.
I don't get the point here? Is this sarcastic, or are you really equivocating the credit one gets for being properly quoted with the credit one gets for being an originator of a strategy shared among a community if they so choose to reveal said strategy (which was the "credit" to which I was originally referring)?
Thanks, Mitch, for the "credit"
Last edited by marinomitch13; 08-25-2015 at 03:48 PM.