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Turbo version....what's the big deal?

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    Turbo version....what's the big deal?

    Scott summed up the other thread by stating that most people have never seen a Ms. Pac-Man set to normal speed. I would agree with that. My machine plays Pac-Man and Ms. Pac Turbo. I can play it at regular speed, but only because I asked for the chip to make it that way.

    As for continuing the discussion with Darren:
    Quote Originally Posted by D_Harris
    I wouldn't think it matters much anyway either way. There is no way in hell a person who can't get a perfect game on Pac-Man is going to get one on turbo. Likewise, I'd claim that there is no way in hell a person who can't group the ghosts on Ms. Pac-Man at regular speed is going to score 900K on turbo.
    And you'd be wrong on all accounts.
    You're going to have quite a difficult time convincing me that I'm wrong, although you're welcome to try. Please keep in mind that I'm not RC. I don't make up ridiculous scenarios, blindly speculate, or use hearsay. I come to the table with what's in black and white. If something isn't known to be correct, I preface it by stating so and if I interject an opinion, it's always going to be based on the established facts.
    It is totally believable, and in fact likely that someone who has never gotten perfect on Pac-man can get perfect on turbo Pac-man.
    Not to me, it isn't, because you absolutely have to know how to group to be perfect on turbo. And if you can do that, you can do it at regular speed as well. Just having talked to you regarding Pac-Man Plus, you thought patterns would be too long to be practical. The patterns on Pac-Man Turbo would be monumentally longer because you'd always be wandering around waiting for ghosts to catch up and then realign. Due to the speed at turbo, there is a necessity to switchback to force the ghosts to catch up. As a result, I can't hold them together 100% of the time without occassionally needing to regroup them usings the holds, so imagine how much more difficult and time-consuming it is going to be to keep them together when you are in constant forward motion.
    It is also totally believable and in fact likely that someone who hasn't mastered grouping on the normal Ms. Pac-man can get 900k on the turbo version. These things have happened already enough times, and I'm surprised you are not aware of it.
    Really? Who? There are only two submissions higher than 900K on both platforms combined.

    On MAME, Donald has grouping mastered, had the benefit of all eight kill screens, and is barely north of 900K. (It's his replay that I learn from.) You also have Aart and Neil on that same scoreboard and neither of them are anywhere close. At MARP, you have two replays over 900K, Donald's and Aart's, which is 903K. That's two players over 900K, and both of them have grouping mastered.

    On arcade, you have Victor. This is the only person I cannot comment on with 100% certainty. However, given what I think we all know about Ms. Pac-Man, and how many players I see over 900K who don't know how to group - zero - I'm sure it would be a rather good bet that this guy also knows how to, because he's quite a bit over 900K. If you can't group, you're going to lose 80-100K in ghosts, and we know those points cannot be made up by just getting good fruits. (If they could, you'd have seen several scores over one million already by the guys who CAN group.)

    I don't know what you think a "top player" is on turbo, but it has already been proven this is wrong.
    With all the empirical evidence I have, I have to disagree. And I am still using the same definition of "top player" that you do: a person who can kill screen the game and can bag the ghosts.

    Why is this such an affront to you? No one said turbo players were as good as classic players. I merely stated that there are, in fact, top players on their respective Pac titles who have submitted on turbo and you got all bent out of shape.

    If Darren, or anyone else for that matter, sees any inaccuracies in the above, by all means, point them out. Note that my opinions are not inaccurate; they are my opinions. However, I am not above changing my opinions if the facts dictate that they aren't well-grounded.
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    Re: Turbo version....what's the big deal?

    I never liked the "top player" stuff.... the more I study the mainstream and the past the more I realize that should mean the "top player who has actually ever taken the time to participate here" which means a small teeny tiny percentage. Attitudes that look down on "contemporary" players and/or assume that anyone around here knows who "all" the top players on anything are is a big reason why a lot of those people never take part.

    It's not even a good comparison... there wasn't a Twin Galaxies for the same time period that most of the old Pac and Ms. Pac machines on location around the country had a turbo chip installed. I've been told by many that the turbo chips were more common in the south and southwest, and would attest to that as a big Pac/Ms. Pac fan myself, I could often go YEARS hunting for a normal speed version to play locally. Never hard to find a Pac or Ms. Pac to play, but they were always the turbo chip versions. I imagine had there been an arcade scorekeeping organization through the late 80s and early 90s you'd see a lot more past activity on the turbo versions.

    One's skill shouldn't be judged by what they had available to them to play. From my seat (and nobody here should pretend to know diddly about my Pac knowledge, as it's something I've kept under my hat for many of the reasons I note in the first part of this post) both versions require different skillsets. Corners, especially on patterns, require being more alert and quicker on the turbo versions and mistakes can be more costly. I've often heard the "you can outrun the monsters" stuff but how often are you really running from them anyway?

    I'm sure this will turn into a pier six brawl of a thread (what would the holidays be without someone so sour they make Eeyore look like Zooey Daschanel posting such replies on here) but it is what it is.

    People should play whichever version they want. Both speeds deserve respect for high skills and if someone wants to look down one someone for playing a version they don't like that doesn't reflect on the players.
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    Re: Turbo version....what's the big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalPSP
    I've often heard the "you can outrun the monsters" stuff but how often are you really running from them anyway?
    You only outrun them in the sense that you travel at a higher rate of speed. However, I never cease to be entertained by the deer-in-the-headlights look I get when I explain the crux of the second half of that statement to people.

    "The player is never running from them. He is only leading them to a new location, which may just so happen to be the same location he very recently occupied."

    Then: :shock: :shock: :shock: "But you're running away!"
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    Re: Turbo version....what's the big deal?

    Exactly. The interaction is rarely a "pursuit" at any speed.
    Patrick Scott Patterson - Video Game Advocate

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    Re: Turbo version....what's the big deal?

    two things:

    - when i first meet a ms.pacman arcade it was a turbo.

    - I just watch the 08x12 episode of “friends“ the one when pheobe gifts a ms.pacman machine to monica and chandler and if you hear carefully souns like a ms.pacman machine with the turbo chip on it xD (i see this a rum to post it here lol)

    ps: i preffer the turbo version of ms.pacman, dont know why, but still prefer the regular version of pacman
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    Re: Turbo version....what's the big deal?

    After reading this topic and a similar topic, here's how I look at it:

    Turbo speed on Pac-Man has its advantages and shortcomings. Running a 9th key pattern on Pac-Man (turbo) is more dangerous than at normal speed, because, if you don't have a solid start to finish pattern, and the timing to do it, you'll be playing the part of a headless chicken running all over the place. I came close to a perfect game on WolfMAME when I accidentally got stuck on the left side of the screen (board 256).

    Turbo speed on Ms. Pac-Man is more exhausting than monotonous because all bets are off with the AI on the red and pink ghosts. Cut-patterns are more difficult than a start to finish pattern, especially when there's over 100 boards after grouping the ghosts to eat them, not counting the random bonuses to get after coming out of the tunnels without getting killed.

    Turbo speed on Jr. Pac-Man is the most time-consuming of the 3, even if you don't point press on every board or if you miss some ghosts. Just like Ms. Pac-Man, the AI is the same, but the beer mug (5,000*4! per board starting on board 7) is great. Sure there's no tunnels, but getting caught when the screen scrolls without knowing where the ghosts are sucks. A little trivia, Board 1 & 3 only appear once. Board 2 appears twice.

    BTW: I realized that I skipped over Pac-Man Plus, so that would've brought the total to 4.
    Sam Miller
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    Sorry to resurrect an old thread just to end an argument from 2+ years ago, but Darren was right...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacmanfevr76 View Post
    It is totally believable, and in fact likely that someone who has never gotten perfect on Pac-man can get perfect on turbo Pac-man.
    Not to me, it isn't, because you absolutely have to know how to group to be perfect on turbo. And if you can do that, you can do it at regular speed as well. Just having talked to you regarding Pac-Man Plus, you thought patterns would be too long to be practical. The patterns on Pac-Man Turbo would be monumentally longer because you'd always be wandering around waiting for ghosts to catch up and then realign. Due to the speed at turbo, there is a necessity to switchback to force the ghosts to catch up. As a result, I can't hold them together 100% of the time without occassionally needing to regroup them usings the holds, so imagine how much more difficult and time-consuming it is going to be to keep them together when you are in constant forward motion. Really? Who? There are only two submissions higher than 900K on both platforms combined.
    Having myself played two perfect games of Pac-Man Turbo (pending verification since they occurred in December 2013 and January 2014, while TG was down) and also having no interest in doing the same on factory speed, I'd say I have to agree with Darren on that point.

    FWIW, my game times were approximately 3h45m and 3h35m, respectively. Freehand grouping for edible levels. My 9th key pattern typically clocks in around 28.6 seconds.
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    Well done.

    Ack, I should be caned for my response to Darren. I just read below and realize I had responded to Darren as if he had said something that he did not, and that's something that...eh, someone else would do. I responded as if his statement had been in line with my original thought: "There is no way in hell a person who can't get a perfect game on Pac-Man is going to get one on turbo."

    My opinion on this matter is not that it would be impossible for someone who did not have a perfect on regular to get one on turbo. I said a person who can't do it at regular can't do it at turbo, meaning a person who is incapable of doing it at regular speed is incapable of doing it at turbo. What this basically means, although my meaning is somewhat tricky to realize, I suppose, is that if you are capable of getting one at turbo, then you absolutely are capable of getting one at regular speed, even if you choose not to. (I responded as if Darren had said "cannot get" as opposed to "has never gotten." My mistake.)

    By the way, why would you choose not to? Using patterns, it would only take a few minutes longer than the times you listed below. Although, I CERTAINLY understand the lack of desire to do so. I am not going to do it on turbo because I don't want to have to do all that all over again.