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I have some bad news for mod chip users, maybe everdrive too?

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,992
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    Ok so it's been a long time since I last posted on this and checking back it seems the person whom had originally offered to test the Everdrive situation has been banned?? So, I guess I will have to do it myself some time when i can locate an Everdrive. But for now, I have an interesting bit of input for what has already been said...

    Quote Originally Posted by adeyblue View Post
    Pretty sure I mentioned this was the case before but proo**s definitely better than 'this guy on the internet said so'.

    If your PAL PS2 is softmodded with Free McBoot then you can play PS1 imports using a program called psxLauncher. That's fine (from a technical standpoint, if not a TG one) since PAL PS2's can do true NTSC. Here's two examples if anyone wants to d/l the 60fps videos from youtube & check its not just 50fps + 10 repeated frames:
    The NTSC-J version of Intelligent Qube (PS1) on my PAL PS2 - https://youtube.com/watch?v=yMUls_xc-jY
    The NTSC-U version of Dynasty Warriors 2 (PS2) also on my PAL PS2 - https://youtube.com/?v=cnGjF6FDMLE

    I don't know the makeup of a NES/SNES/N64 to comment but its not always the case that 'foreign roms' will play incorrectly on the hardware.
    Originally I brushed this off and assumed i was correct in saying it wouldn't work earlier on in this thread but after doing a bit of digging online it would appear what he says is actually correct (from what i can tell so far) ...

    It would appear PlayStation 2 consoles can actually perform PAL or NTSC video signals without slow down issues. I am yet to test it as i don't have a proper NTSC console, only a PAL system with Free MCBoot.

    I would love to some how prove this to be correct though as I have a genuine Japanese copy of Ridge Racer 5 which i would love to submit some scores to TG with.

    I shall report back soon with any findings...
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  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,992
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    Ok so i've been doing some digging... I had a look online for high res images of PS2 boards to see if i could see a oscillator crystal on any of the boards. I found none on any of the boards at all...

    Good news in theory as if there are none then there is no way it can effect the video signal/game clock speed. I did wonder how it would work without one though which is slightly outside of my knowledge with such hardware. I then decided to see if i could locate some schematics for the PS2 fat and slim models to see if i could find a component list for the board and see if there was one. After ages trying to find these i eventually found a SCPH-3000x service manual with schematics.

    In the components section there was a oscillator crystal listed...


    From here i could see that this was located at "X202" on the board. A quick look and i found it.



    Turns out on the PS2 it is actually an IC instead of the usual example shown below.


    I also wanted to know what it was for so i took a look at the block diagram and it is indeed related to the video processor.



    Here we can see it goes into the GPU and this diagram also states the Mhz rate it is running at which is 54Mhz (in black). What would be ideal at this stage is to find another service manual and see if the PAL/NTSC models are the same clock rate on the oscillator crystal if they are then there would be no issue here unlike the PS1 which differs between the 2.

    Sadly, I cannot seem to find a NTSC service manual as yet...

    One thing i did find though was a SCPH-7000x model which is the PS2 slim model. I did the same thing i did with the fat models but it turns out these consoles do NOT have a oscillator crystal listed so perhaps these are ok for use?



    I'm kinda stabbing in the dark a little as this is pretty in depth stuff. I've asked on a huge PS forum about this situation and I've had no replies as yet. It's really not something people know about or have ever looked into (to my knowledge).

    As the PS2 slim doesn't have a oscillator crystal i fail to see how it would effect game play unless some other device/IC on the board does the same job the crystal did on the fat models which I'm unaware of... but the fat models may well do as they do have one and unless i can find the block diagram for the NTSC model i cannot confirm if the Mhz rate is different between the 2 consoles.

    All in all, at this stage I'm unsure I will keep digging but it's proving to be hard work. I may well order a PS2 NTSC-J model and run it beside my slim PAL model and see if the timer looses sync like my experiment on the PS1 but NTSC PS2's over here aren't c he ap so it may take a while.

    Can anyone do this sort of test on an Ever drive device? I am so certain this will effect Ever drives with games of a different region to the console used. Can be on anything, NES, SNES, MD, MS etc. Very curious to know.
    Last edited by rotunda; 03-18-2017 at 07:04 AM.
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  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,992
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    Ok so moment of truth time... For PS2 at least...

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    I got my Japanese PS2 today so i decided to run a test like i did on the PS1. I recorded Ridge Racer 5 NTSC-J on the same disk image, same track, same settings etc. Only difference is the PAL console was soft modded (basically using a software mod chip) in order to run the NTSC game whereas obviously the NTSC-J console was legit and running it as intended from the factory.


    The result was surprising... and confusing!


    First frame on both consoles:





    First frame picked up by the camera and both consoles are roughly at the same speed/time (apart from a small different in ms due to the camera FPS picking up a different time per clip as it's not fast enough to get the exact same micro second time, each time). Towards the end they are still perfectly in sync (again aside from the small ms).





    Ultimately, this means as far as PS2 is concerned, games from different regions COULD be accepted... Right? well watch this video...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0W9hOfOou0

    The in game timer stays fine BUT the game on PAL IS running slower... Towards the end you will see the game time out warning show up on the NTSC-J console first, then the PAL console after. They also have different total run time duration.

    So if it is running at different speed, why do the counters remain in sync i hear you ask...

    Well, the PS2 has an actual clock in the console for the BIOS. The game pulls the time from this clock instead of a in game clock (like the PS1). So the actual time will be the same as obviously, time over in japan doesn't run faster than here in the UK.. a second is a second worldwide. It also explains why the game time out timer shows at different times as this will be prompted in game by the code or some other in game prompt and NOT the real time clock.

    So, ultimately, yes PS2 cross region is also effected like the PS1. Someone needs to test Ever Drive devices as I can see cross region being a problem with those too.
    Last edited by rotunda; 03-23-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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    Saw your post on my thread. What did you need exactly?
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    I need you to carry out the test i did above if you can.

    You need a game with a timer in it (driving games are usually full of them) and run both NTSC and PAL version rom's and run them on your Ever drive to see if there is a speed difference.

    Same as this basically:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0W9hOfOou0

    I'm trying to work out if Ever drives are effected cross region. I'm 99% sure they will be but until it's tested who knows.

    If you can record them both and send me the files i can put the video together if your not familiar with editing the 2 together like i did in the video above.
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    I probably can but I'll need some time to do it. Med school problems etc

    But I will add it to my to-do list and try to get to it in a reasonable amount of time. I would assume timing differences between the two as well, but who knows.
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    That would be great thanks.
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    I have Everdrives for SNES and GEN, and PowerPak for NES. Can I help with anything?
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    Yes please, do you have a game with an in game timer (say a driving game for example) which you can use both a PAL and NTSC ROM of on the ever drive on either system (Mario Kart for SNES in time attack might be an ideal one to use?).

    If the timer will let you, 10 minutes is the ideal time to show a real difference in game speed. I just need 2 recordings of PAL and NTSC running on your machine for 10 mins and then the footage sent over so i can check their timing side by side. Oh and i need to know the original hardware too ideally, i will assume you have an NTSC console?

    If you can do this drop me a PM as I would love to investigate this and see if my theory is correct.
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    Well a massive thanks goes out to @sdwyer138 for helping me with this. Also thanks to SSDNinja for the offer.

    I finally have Everdrive footage!

    This is on SNES, Mario Kart. I have both PAL and NTSC running for 10 mins with a timer on a NTSC console. Ideally i want to compare the PAL Ever Drive times to a real PAL console. But for now, here is the footage of both regions running on a NTSC console.

    First frame:

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    Video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mKhHFCVz0

    Now, the results here are surprising to me. The PAL version DOES run slower... How this is possible I'm not sure but i must assume there is some sort of hardware in the Ever Drive cartridge which controls the game timing/overrides the oscillator crystal in the console?. I don't know this for sure but ultimately, There is a time difference there so that NTSC console is running the PAL game at the correct speed some how.

    If i can, i will perform a comparison vs a real PAL console and PAL cart to see if it is running at the correct speed vs a real PAL system.

    Very interesting though, and good news for anyone using Ever Drive even across regions, so far at least.
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