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Derelict Submissions

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 28,683


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    Post Derelict Submissions

    So I was going through the queue a couple days ago and started looking into the lack of activity on some of the older submissions.

    There are nearly 100 submissions currently that haven't had a single comment since the new year, with the oldest submissions stretching back to August of last year with no activity. Nearly 25% of the current queue is made up of submissions with no comments and very low view counts considering the age of the submission.

    This number is just going to get bigger as people forget about submissions or let them linger for half a year or more. If people can't even be bothered to bump their posts after a few months of adjudication there should be some consideration to having an automated cancel for forgotten submissions after it hasn't received a comment after x amount of time. Having a quarter of the most important facet of the website essentially dead makes for a bad image. Especially when turnover at other places can be done much faster and often solely by experts in the submitted game.

    I already can see the "but what about the time of people who voted on a submission? Won't it be wasted?" arguments so here's a pre-counter to that. If people, especially submitters, value the time of the community they would work at keeping their submissions active and easy to adjudicate. But when a submission goes dark for six months I find it hard to make the claim that people are unfairly losing their time and effort, especially with the recent move to retroactively punish voters for evidence that disappears after acceptance.

    Having all this clutter just looks gross and after a submission hits a certain point it seems to just be forgotten. If people can't be bothered to keep submissions active they should get canceled and either be re-submitted or reattempted with more evidence to make for an easier vote. Personally I try to keep my scores bumped every week or two so they maintain visibility.

    To make it clear: I'm asking for the automatic cancel to be based on last commented activity and not necessarily the date of submission. That way it is clear that submissions that are forgotten about are automatically swept away, keeping the queue looking a bit more active.
  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,357
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    Just throwing out an idea:

    Determine a reasonable cap to the number of games a member can have in the adjudication queue. It is only the member's submitted games that have not yet been adjudicated that count toward their submission cap; once their game is accepted, rejected, or cancelled, that game no longer counts toward their submission cap.

    Submission points remain vital to submit games for adjudication, but this mechanism would regulate their use in order to stabilize the submission queue. This means that no member can flood the submission queue with ten bajillion games in a matter of days regardless of how many submission points he or she has accumulated.

    Let's say, for example, adjudication submissions are capped at 5 games per member. And let's say Johnny has 25 games he wants to submit to the queue. He submits his first 5 games with no restrictions; his submission points are reduced as always. Johnny still has plenty of submission points but, when attempting to upload his 6th game to the queue, he is informed that he has reached his 5-game limit in the queue. Whenever any of Johnny's 5 games in the queue are adjudicated, however, he can then keep submitting.

    I think a mechanism such as this might also have a positive impact on the above complaint regarding people not tending to their submissions once uploaded to the queue. I think folks will be far less prone to allowing their games to languish away for months in a queue when they need those games to be adjudicated in order to keep submitting more. It also keeps the number of games waiting to be adjudicated down to a workable size.

    Some people—perhaps a great many people—will loathe this notion. I'm not even sure it would have the desired effect. This is off the top of my head, honestly, and I really haven't pondered on this enough to know if I'm talking crap or not. If nothing else, maybe it will spur someone else into having a really good idea!

    My two cents, your mileage may vary, yada yada yada.

    -J

    Jamey Pittman
    Perfect Pac-Man - 3,333,360 (Twin Galaxies, MARP)
    The Pac-Man Dossier
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  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 28,683


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    I've thought about that too when people were spamming their easy score Guitar Heros and umpteen billion Bejeweldazed Crush games but in a different way - increasing SP cost after certain thresholds. So 3 points for 1-5 active submissions, 4 points for 6-10 etc. So submit all you want but pay for being impatient.

    But I think that issue is a separate one entirely as you could have a submitter only submit one thing and it can sink to the bottom for half a year. I think especially seeing that kind of activity as a new member is especially daunting. To me it shows a complete apathy in the submission to just let it sit and linger. I don't think asking for a comment every month or two is too much to ask for your submission to stay relevant. If you can't do that much then you don't care about the record in the first place.

    And this includes anyone too. The entire TG community has not commented on 25% of the queue in at the very minimum 2.5 months. I think it's time to let some of these go.
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    Agreed, there are so many old submissions that need to be cleaned out - some kind of auto-cancel based on a time frame should be applied. If a sub hasn't been approved after a couple of months, there is something wrong with it - either the submitter hasn't properly bumped it, or the submission itself is lacking in some way (poor evidence, questionable gameplay tactics, etc.) and people are afraid to outright reject it...it's the dreaded "the sub isn't good but I'll abstain and not risk any cred",
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  5. VERIFIED Honored Veteran Credibility: 27,463


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    Two counter-points:

    1) If you're not going to vote/comment on a submission, it's none of your concern whether it remains in the queue. You are not contributing to it in any capacity. It also is not affecting you by being out of sight at the bottom of the queue.
    2) You guys are just highlighting your own laziness and demanding some machine take over the adjudication for yourselves which defeats the the human adjudication aspect of the TGSAP.

    Are you on my radar?
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    Two counter-points:
    2) You guys are just highlighting your own laziness and demanding some machine take over the adjudication for yourselves which defeats the the human adjudication aspect of the TGSAP.
    Both points are valid. However, I do spend time every day adjudicating and performing MAME analyses (thanks so much for that clever batch file). My suggestion about the cap was more about dealing with those who spam the queue in a short period of time. I agree it's not a huge problem, but I do find it irksome. As I said, I'm not even sure my notion is warranted or workable but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

    Cheers,

    J

    Jamey Pittman
    Perfect Pac-Man - 3,333,360 (Twin Galaxies, MARP)
    The Pac-Man Dossier
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpittman View Post
    Both points are valid. However, I do spend time every day adjudicating and performing MAME analyses (thanks so much for that clever batch file). My suggestion about the cap was more about dealing with those who spam the queue in a short period of time. I agree it's not a huge problem, but I do find it irksome. As I said, I'm not even sure my notion is warranted or workable but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

    Cheers,

    J
    Thanks for the compliment & great to see another using the MAME batch too. :) As you've probably realised: there's very little human involved in what gets posted from it but instead just automates and orders a bunch of stuff to aid in diagnosing what is/isn't factual.

    As to the other points: diversity is one of the things making TG a good scoreboard & different opinions come along with that - no harm in those existing. :D

    I do find the notion of "seeing a lot of submissions irksome" quite comical under any situation (including if they're all from one individual). If there's not a lot of submissions, then this place ain't alive and therefore not much of a scoreboard. As it is I'd describe the current activity as "dormant".

    Are you on my radar?
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
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  8. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barthax View Post
    I do find the notion of "seeing a lot of submissions irksome" quite comical under any situation (including if they're all from one individual). If there's not a lot of submissions, then this place ain't alive and therefore not much of a scoreboard.
    Point taken.

    Jamey Pittman
    Perfect Pac-Man - 3,333,360 (Twin Galaxies, MARP)
    The Pac-Man Dossier
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  9. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 28,683


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    Please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't be concerned with, thanks.

    This is a problem that's only going to become more pronounced as time goes by. There is no benefit to the community to have 1,000 submissions if 700 of them are 10 months old.

    Again though and it seems to keep coming up my issue isn't one person submitting 500 things at once. It's having old submissions devoid of any activity for months at a time taking proportionally more and more space up in the queue. There's no system to deal with these since no one will reject them and no one wants to accept them either.

    No other place in the speedrun/high score community would think having visible pending submissions for six months is a positive thing. It's not an issue of how much we have in the queue, but how much we turnover. Having a system to remove a submission that has been inactive for months has no negative effect; if anyone wants to keep the submission active then just take three seconds and bump the thread. Anyone that even remotely cares about getting their score accepted should be able to manage that.
  10. VERIFIED TG Head Custodian Credibility: 1,000
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    One idea could be having a total limit on the amount of items allowed in the queue.

    For example - if the queue simply wont allow more than 200 items no matter what, then the community would need to adjudicate stuff through in order to continue to submit more.


    hmmmm.......
    Jace Hall
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