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Cancelled Submissions

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,527
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    Holy jeez the Intellivision Master is a real A-Hole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stella_blue View Post

    I hope the performance was enjoyable for those who watched the entire INP playback.

    Otherwise, adjudicators wasted more than 3 hours of their time.
    A complete waste of time is the best-case scenario, unfortunately; it could be paired with a 5% CR hit for those who voted Yes in good faith and aren't aware of the cancellation of a perfectly valid submission.

    Jamey Pittman
    Perfect Pac-Man - 3,333,360 (Twin Galaxies, MARP)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensweeneyonbass View Post
    Holy jeez the Intellivision Master is a real A-Hole.
    What is with some of these people lately? People acting entitled, or childish, or just plain rude...certainly not a way to make friends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stella_blue View Post

    Another valid submission canceled because a higher score has already been accepted.

    I wish people would stop doing that.



    While I agree with that I think the real problem is TG's policy of making every cancelled submission require either a "No" vote or no vote at all or you lose 5% of your credibility. Voting "Yes" on a perfectly acceptable submission and then losing 5% of your credibility because the submitter cancelled is just wrong. It's not quite as big of deal but it's also wrong for someone to lose out on their 3 points of credibility and 1 Submission point for having to remove their "Yes" vote. I'd be willing to guess that the policy on cancelled submissions has caused more frustration than any other.
    "Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good"

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.B. Cooper View Post
    While I agree with that I think the real problem is TG's policy of making every cancelled submission require either a "No" vote or no vote at all or you lose 5% of your credibility. Voting "Yes" on a perfectly acceptable submission and then losing 5% of your credibility because the submitter cancelled is just wrong. It's not quite as big of deal but it's also wrong for someone to lose out on their 3 points of credibility and 1 Submission point for having to remove their "Yes" vote. I'd be willing to guess that the policy on cancelled submissions has caused more frustration than any other.

    No argument here.

    In my opinion, the cancellation feature is an ill-conceived solution to an issue that was never a big deal.

    Consider everything that has transpired over the past 10-11 months:

    • The cancel function has never worked properly and consistently.
    • At least one canceled submission was accepted in error.
    • The behavior of the feature was modified, but no formal announcement was made.
    • Adjudicators have suffered massive CR penalties (twice) due to a flash flood of rejections, essentially wiping out credibility that took 6-12 months (or longer) to earn.
    • A number of perfectly valid submissions were canceled for dubious reasons.

    All of the above have created confusion, frustration, and negative goodwill.

    My understanding is that a primary reason for implementing the cancel function was to prevent voters from "piling on" after a Reject Me Please! request, thereby receiving "unearned" credibility and submission points.

    I have a few questions:

    (1) Did a handful of opportunistic "No" votes really present a serious problem?
    (2) Was the problem so enormous that it absolutely had to be addressed?
    (3) Is what we have now better than simply overlooking a few "freeloader" votes?


    Personally, I don't think so.

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    Cancel Submission Feature - Description


    The TG article that describes the cancel feature is not currently accessible on this site. My guess is that it was removed when the behavior of the function was modified. Before the change, members could switch their votes from "Yes" to "No". After the change, they were only allowed to remove their votes.

    Using the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, I was able to track down the original article:

    https://web-beta.archive.org/web/*/http://www.twingalaxies.com:80/content.php/4185-Cancel-Submission-Feature-Description/*

    The content has been reproduced below:

    Cancel Submission Feature - Description
    by TWIN GALAXIES
    Published on 05-27-2016 10:30 AM

    Recently we added the ability for members to cancel their submissions, and it has created some confusion!

    We have recently improved its function and here is an attempt to provide some clarity and to help set expectations.

    When a user cancels his/her submission, here is what happens:

    1.) The Submission thread is closed to any additional voting.

    2.) The Submission thread is moved to the Cancelled Submissions area.

    3.) A notification is sent out to anyone who had voted on the submission prior to cancellation, letting them know that a cancellation has taken place on a submission they have voted on. So that those voters are able to change their vote to NO (if needed.)

    4.) The submission will eventually adjudicate just like any other submission.

    5.) If someone who voted YES does not change their vote to NO by the time the cancel submission adjudicates, they WILL suffer a credibility hit. The cancel function is only designed to alert/notify/separate canceled submissions so that they can be conveniently monitored - it is not designed to change or alter anyone's vote.

    6.) A submission, once canceled, can not ever get automatically accepted into the database through adjudication. Once a submission is canceled it will eventually be rejected. There is only a matter of time allowed for people who have voted on the submission to make sure they change their vote to NO if needed.

    7.) Once a submission is canceled there is a 5 day minimum time allowance for users to change their vote (if needed.)

    That's it.

    The Cancel feature performs the same function as the former "Reject Me" user thread, with the only changes being that new voters can not ride a rejection to get free points, and that now users are directly notified.

    It still remains the voters responsibility to monitor everything that they are choosing to vote on, and to be responsible for their own participation.

    The cancel feature will not change your vote for you.

    "What if a submission that was Cancelled, still gets accepted?"

    It can't. It will not get accepted once canceled. It will eventually get rejected, however the entire performance, commentary and record of the cancelation will remain stored at Twin Galaxies.

    There are numerous reasons that it must work like this, not the least of which is to prevent attempts at hiding cheating attempts from the user base, or to prevent the ability for one member to waste the time of another member deliberately.

    Hopefully this clarifies!


    Last edited by stella_blue; 04-19-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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  • VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,171
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    Hi everyone,

    I received 2 private messages today that a submission I cancelled 2 days ago will penalize those that voted yes for the submission.
    http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...Paul-Hornitzky

    I thought that when a submission is cancelled, all votes are removed. However I have been advised I am mistaken. Sorry for the inconvenience. Could you all please check if you have voted yes for the above submission and remove your vote. I won't be cancelling any more submissions in future until the policy is changed to all votes are removed for a cancellation.

    Thanks
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  • Quote Originally Posted by OOO View Post
    I thought that when a submission is cancelled, all votes are removed.

    I won't be cancelling any more submissions in future until the policy is changed to all votes are removed for a cancellation.

    Thanks
    It's not at all an intuitive system. I suspect absolutely everyone assumes that in your instance, it was a well intended action. Your note here certainly confirms that. Thanks Paul.

    Many don't at all care for the process. For that matter, the 5% hit is gigantic for an incorrect vote too.

    Take Duc's 40K cred as an example, should he (and I'm sure he won't - fingers crossed) make one error, he'll get hit for 2K. To recover this 2K, he'll need to correctly adjudicate 667 submissions just to break even! Eesh... brutal.

    For personal submissions, I've been taking the route of either letting the submission ride, or in the instance of an error, circumventing the system and just asking everyone to reject. While not the correct approach I suppose, I can't rationally see taking any other route given what has been presented as policy.
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    Cancelled Submissions Update*

    New cancellations since April 19, 2017:

    Nintendo 3DS - Theatrhythm Final Fantasy - Music Play - Challenge - Final Fantasy - Main Theme - Expert Score - 9,999,999 - Matthew Felix

    Sega Dreamcast - Capcom vs SNK 2: Millionaire Fighting 2001 - NTSC/J - Points [Tournament Settings] - 995 - Victor Delgado

    Game Boy / Game Boy Color - Super Mario Bros. Deluxe - Original 1985 - Points - 378,300 - Ryan Genno

    The last entry might escape the notice of some as it's nowhere near the top of the Canceled subforum.

    * – The intent of this thread is to help warn Twin Galaxies adjudicators when new cancellations occur, but the updates posted here should not be considered as a substitute for checking the Canceled archive yourself on a regular basis. Remember: green check marks indicate cancelled submissions where you voted Yes, and these submissions will damage your credibility rating unless you remove your Yes votes before they are processed and transferred to the Rejected archive. Changing your vote to No will remove your vote from a cancelled submission and avoid the 5% CR penalty.

    Jamey Pittman
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  • VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,337
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    I haven't included this info in my posts reporting new cancellations, but I've seen several games move from the Canceled queue to the Rejected archive over the past week or so. I'm hoping this is a sign that TG is finally attempting to correct the problem where the queue built up for months on end until hundreds of games were flushed at once, creating two CR mega-disasters which, quite understandably, provoked the ire of the adjudication community.

    They're still not moving over after the 5-day grace period as originally described, but at least a few seem to be moving here and there, which is preferable compared to the utter stagnation of the queue that we've seen in the past. Whatever server-side automation they likely intended for handling this aspect of the cancellation system is obviously broken (or was never implemented at all). Perhaps the recent transfers are a sign that someone is working on it? Who knows?

    I'll keep an eye on it and see if I notice any further developments.

    Jamey Pittman
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