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Record Count Incorrect In User Profile

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 14,405
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    I'm not opposed to classifying tracks as Guinness World Record Eligible (Premium) and Not Guinness World Record Eligible (Standard), I just don't support the approach. Basically instead of making all tracks Guinness World Record Eligible and weeding out the 'Novelty' tracks out in a separate classification, you made all user created tracks non eligible. Instead of identifying the ~5% or less "novelty" tracks, the implemented process has the potential to create unnecessary administrator involvement if the majority (estimate 95%) of all community funded tracks are requested for reclassification. Is it easier to isolate the majority or the few from the herd? The sayings "addition by subtraction" and "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" comes to mind. Rant aside, I'd suggest putting a yes/no toggle box in the new track creation form to indicate if the track should be reviewed for premium status. This may help with the overall workflow and add positively to the user experience.

    Either way you get there, I agree with Patrick V that there needs to be a clear distinction on record classification in the user's profile. All added together should equal the number of unique track submissions. Here is my thoughts on the three labels:
    • World Record (1st Place Premium)
    • Community Record (1st Place Standard)
    • Other Submissions (Non 1st Place Premium and Standard)


    Question - How is this going to impact the member leaderboard for world record count? Is the current leaderboard going to change to measure 'Premium' tracks or are you going to add a leaderboard and track World Records and Community Records?
    Last edited by MyOwnWorstEnemy; 05-08-2017 at 05:45 PM.
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    I asked this in my blogpost but will ask it here too:

    What would the incentive be for new people to participate on non-premium tracks? Why bother putting in the effort if it's not considered a world record anyway?

    The same thing goes for track creation. When creating a new track it's not a premium track and a new score will, by default, not be considered a world record.
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    Thumbs down on whatever is the cause of this change.

    1st place on a track is a world's record regardless of the the nature of the track or variation.

    Isn't this a way of being biased and having preferences to some tracks over others???

    I don't get it, because if a person has a 1st place record on a track then they do have the world's record for that variation, don't they???.

    If gamers get no recognition for the 1st place score, then...

    why have track variations at all ???
    and...
    why would people participate in them if you do have them with no recognition???

    Having the variations is half the fun, and getting the recognition for being the best is why we are all here, right?

    As far as some tracks being Guinness tracks... I thought that is why they have their own section in the "platform"s. I like the ties between GB and TG, but I don't think that relationship should discriminate against certain gamers. I understand that GB has to limit what gets printed in their book and cannot include all world's records in every publication, but the TG site here does not have those same limitations and I fail to see the need to incorporate those limitations.

    TG can and historically has recognized the gamers first, and this view of some games being worthy of recognition and others not, is just a way of excluding the gamers that enjoy and excel in those games and track variations. I know my opinion doesn't count for much here, or anywhere, but this denying a first place score as a world's record, when it has gone through the same adjudication process as any other score, is just a way to hold gamers back in my opinion.

    My 15 wr's went down to 9, so I still have a little (very little lol) bragging rights.
    But... I have to think that there is someone out there who had 1 or perhaps a few world's records and now they do not. Not because they got beaten by another gamer, but beaten by the system. It just doesn't seem fair to me to give someone the recognition of their world record and then strip it away even though no one beat it. Changing the PSI/ESI and considering competition levels for those indexes is understandable, but taking a record that has passed the TGSAP away from a gamer when no one has beaten that record, just doesn't seem right.

    Again, I know my opinion weighs very little, but I felt compelled to voice it concerning this recent change.

    Here is my thoughts on the three labels:

    • World Record (1st Place Premium)
    • Community Record (1st Place Standard)
    • Other Submissions (Non 1st Place Premium and Standard)
    I disagree
    It's a fact that 1st place on any track is a WORLD's RECORD for that track, until it gets beaten by another gamer's score through the TGSAP.

    It is up to the person who is reviewing the person's stats and records as to which one's are Premium or Standard as those are opinions and not facts, and will vary from person to person.
    Last edited by Conjured Entertainment; 05-09-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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    Unless I missed the official announcement somewhere, lets all take a step back for a bit and keep things simple.

    Is this a system error/testing glitch that will be re-stored back to its "original WR count/ and other scores" state?

    OR

    Is this a new purposeful way of the TG system considering what is now counted as a TG World record?


    Although everyone here is somewhat affected by all of this, Im sure we shall get some type of straight forward answer soon. @Jace Hall
    Last edited by Marcade; 05-09-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcamy View Post
    Im sure we shall get some type of straight forward answer soon. @Jace Hall
    Looking forward to it.
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    It seems people are making way too big of deal over this. If you made good tracks, simply ask TG to make them premium and it will be done. If you create a new track and it's good, simply ask TG to make it premium and it will be done. If you create a bad or stupid track it will never become premium. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to make these requests but for some it seems getting the recognition of a TG WR and being included into the GWR book are super important. If it's that important, go to the effort to send the PM's.

    The only negative I'm seeing is that I have no clue what tracks I've set up so it would take a lot of time for me to figure this out and since I don't really care about the book or recognition I may never get around to asking TG to make them premium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.B. Cooper View Post
    The only negative I'm seeing is that I have no clue what tracks I've set up so it would take a lot of time for me to figure this out and since I don't really care about the book or recognition I may never get around to asking TG to make them premium.
    Realistically you're not the only one in this situation. The current setup is that the onus is on the player to do so, then track individual requests and status of requests... all by PM. Many won't bother.

    The better approach, and I'm pretty sure Shaun already brought it up earlier or in another thread, is to make everything premium and have TG turn novelties into other scores. Far less work for everyone, TG included. Additionally, the time to decide what is and what isn't premium would best approached at the point of track creation. Say, once created, all new tracks have to pass through TG admin to determine status before entering the database.

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  8. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 14,405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conjured Entertainment View Post
    Thumbs down on whatever is the cause of this change.

    1st place on a track is a world's record regardless of the the nature of the track or variation.

    Isn't this a way of being biased and having preferences to some tracks over others???

    I don't get it, because if a person has a 1st place record on a track then they do have the world's record for that variation, don't they???.

    If gamers get no recognition for the 1st place score, then...

    why have track variations at all ???
    and...
    why would people participate in them if you do have them with no recognition???

    Having the variations is half the fun, and getting the recognition for being the best is why we are all here, right?

    As far as some tracks being Guinness tracks... I thought that is why they have their own section in the "platform"s. I like the ties between GB and TG, but I don't think that relationship should discriminate against certain gamers. I understand that GB has to limit what gets printed in their book and cannot include all world's records in every publication, but the TG site here does not have those same limitations and I fail to see the need to incorporate those limitations.

    TG can and historically has recognized the gamers first, and this view of some games being worthy of recognition and others not, is just a way of excluding the gamers that enjoy and excel in those games and track variations. I know my opinion doesn't count for much here, or anywhere, but this denying a first place score as a world's record, when it has gone through the same adjudication process as any other score, is just a way to hold gamers back in my opinion.

    My 15 wr's went down to 9, so I still have a little (very little lol) bragging rights.
    But... I have to think that there is someone out there who had 1 or perhaps a few world's records and now they do not. Not because they got beaten by another gamer, but beaten by the system. It just doesn't seem fair to me to give someone the recognition of their world record and then strip it away even though no one beat it. Changing the PSI/ESI and considering competition levels for those indexes is understandable, but taking a record that has passed the TGSAP away from a gamer when no one has beaten that record, just doesn't seem right.

    Again, I know my opinion weighs very little, but I felt compelled to voice it concerning this recent change.


    I disagree
    It's a fact that 1st place on any track is a WORLD's RECORD for that track, until it gets beaten by another gamer's score through the TGSAP.

    It is up to the person who is reviewing the person's stats and records as to which one's are Premium or Standard as those are opinions and not facts, and will vary from person to person.
    Just to be clear, your taking my quote a bit out of context. I'm really not a supporter of the 'premium' vs. 'standard' class designation. However, I am supporter of clarity and transparency. So if your going to implement regardless of dissenting opinions, at least change and create the labels that accurately reflect what the numbers next to them mean. If the world records count in the user profile only counts 1st place on 'Premium' tracks, than create another label that tracks the 1st place score for 'Standard' tracks. To lump the 1st place scores on 'Standard' tracks and all non first place scores in the 'Other Records' label is not transparent or valuable.
    "All persons ought to endeavor to follow what is right, and not what is established."

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  9. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 15,075


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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    Realistically you're not the only one in this situation. The current setup is that the onus is on the player to do so, then track individual requests and status of requests... all by PM. Many won't bother.

    The better approach, and I'm pretty sure Shaun already brought it up earlier or in another thread, is to make everything premium and have TG turn novelties into other scores. Far less work for everyone, TG included. Additionally, the time to decide what is and what isn't premium would best approached at the point of track creation. Say, once created, all new tracks have to pass through TG admin to determine status before entering the database.
    I agree with this 100%.
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