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Todd Roger Atari 2600 Video Game World Records

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    Todd Roger Atari 2600 Video Game World Records

    Todd Roger Atari 2600 Video Game World Records

    http://www.ataricompendium.com/game_...gh_scores.html

    Todd Roger Atari 2600 Video Game World Records




    1.Dragster 5.51 by William A. Stewart
    Kevin Kopaczewski
    Todd Rogers
    Although Todd is commonly recognized as the only person to beat Activision's "perfect game", 2 other people were recognized by Activision, first in their Activisions December 1982 V5 newsletter; Todd was recognized in the Spring 1983 V6 issue. Todd also has a screenshot of a 5.54 run, a video of a 5.61 run, and a video and linkof a 5.64 run.




    2. Adventures of Tron 1,045,200 by Steve Germershausen
    video #1 video #2 Todd Rogers has claimed scores of 732,100 and 999,999 but offered no proof.


    3. Asterix 132,500* Todd Rogers * Unknown if NTSC or PAL version was used. NTSC version is rare.


    4.Asteroids10,004,100 by Mike Morrow

    33hr game link Todd Roger's previous record was 4,210,100 done in 13hours link. Keith Dexter claimed 16,260,120 in 5 hours on a PAL version (info from Atari VCS Owners Club Bulletin, August 1983 issue)!
    1,656,000 by Todd Rogers game 6, 13hr game.



    5. Barnstorming 32.67 by Todd Rogers
    screenshot and linkHe was originally recognized for a 32.74 in Activision's December 1982 V5 newsletter, and later credited by Activision for a 32.04 score, which was a typo on their part. 3 TG refs claim he achieved a 32.50 on 2 separate occasions, but no proof was ever shown. Todd also has a video of a 32.77 run.


    49.82 by Todd Rogers game 2 He was also recognized for a 49.98 in Activision's December 1982 V5 newsletter.

    51.67 by Todd Rogers game 3 He was also recognized for a 52.42 in Activision's December 1982 V5 newsletter.

    1:10:77 by Todd Rogers game 4



    6.Beamrider999,999 Todd Rogers, Douglas Korekach (maxed on sector 81. Also maxed sector counter at 99), Jonas Carlson (sector 83)


    7. Bermuda Triangle1,766,100 by Todd Rogers


    8. Berzerk 787,040 by Todd Rogers game 6


    9. Bugs 910 by Todd Rogers


    10. Casino 9,999 by Todd Rogers


    11. Centipede 4,111,660 by Todd Rogers average scoring rate 1 million = 2 hours link


    12. Cosmic Ark 1,264,850 by Todd Rogers screenshot Heavy use of point-pressing


    13.Commando Raid 308,110 by Glenn Sampson
    Difficulty AA link Todd Rogers claims 3,325,300 in 60 hours link but didn't mention the settings used. Glen's scoring rate shows you can reach Todd's score in 5 hours, not 60!


    14. Crackpots 1,000,000 by Todd Rogers screenshot


    15. Crystal Castles 860,088 by Todd Rogers


    16. Dark Chambers 935,500 by Todd Rogers


    17. Decathlon 12,704 by Todd Rogers


    Decathlon - 100m dash 9.15 byTodd Rogers
    Steve Germershausen
    Tom Duncan
    Todd's screenshot
    Greg Degeneffe used a modified joystick to achieve this

    Decathlon - 110m hurdles 11.82Todd Rogers
    Steve Germershausen screenshot


    Decathlon - 1500m race 3:36.3 by Todd Rogers
    Steve Germershausen
    Tom Duncan
    screenshot



    Decathlon - 400m race 0:39.3 by Todd Rogers
    Steve Germershausen
    Tom Duncan
    screenshot



    Decathlon - discus throw 72.84 by Todd Rogers
    Steve Germershausen
    Tom Duncan
    screenshot



    Decathlon - high jump 2.4 by Todd Rogers

    Steve Germershausen
    Tom Duncan
    Todd's screenshot
    Steve's screenshot
    Greg's Atari


    Decathlon - javelin throw 93.09 by Todd Rogers

    Steve Germershausen
    Tom Duncan
    screenshot



    Decathlon - long jump 11.57 by Todd Rogers
    Steve Germershausen Todd's screenshot and

    Decathlon - shot put 23.81 by Todd Rogers

    Steve Germershausen screenshot


    18. Dragonfire 1,265,310 by Todd Rogers


    19. Donkey Kong Junior 1,472,100 by Steve Germmershausen screenshot (before roll) on DVD. Got 1,325,400 before losing 1st life.
    video #1, video #2, video #3 Todd Rogers claims 15,048,050* (must be a typo since all scores must end in "00") in 38 hours link Steve's scoring rate proves it would have only taken a little over 32 hours to reach 15 million.


    20. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial 1,202,387 by Jeff Adkins Difficulty A video #1, video #2, video #3 Took 9-10 hours. Todd Rogers claims 1,011,657 in 35 hours link Jef**s scoring rate proves it would only take 1/3rd as long to roll the score.


    21. Enduro 118,00 by Todd Rogers 48hr game (398 days) screenshot and link


    22. Fast Food 1,000,000 by Todd Rogers max score screenshot * score counter turns to 6 objects (confirm?)


    23. Fathom 24,300 by "frostbite76" screenshot Todd Rogers got 1,110,500 which is highly unlikely since point-pressing is not possible and game ends after level 7 with scores under 30k.


    24. Fireball-cascade 74,227 by Todd Rogers


    25.Fireball-firetrap 97,990 by Todd Rogers screenshot


    26. Flash Gordon 1,336,500 by Todd Rogers


    27. Frostbite 1,832,730 by Todd Rogers


    28. G.I. Joe: Cobra Strike 1,231,500 by Todd Rogers


    29. Gopher 1,000,000 by Todd Rogers max score screenshot * score counter turns to 6 carrots (confirm?)


    30. Grand Prix 29.47 by Todd Rogers He was recognized for a 29.49 in Activision's Fall 1982 V4 newsletter. Also both Todd and Jonathan Ewing have a 29.61 link

    50.81 by Todd Rogers game 2 He was recognized for a 50.95 in Activision's Fall 1982 V4 newsletter.

    01:13.88 by Todd Rogers game 3 He was recognized in Activision's Fall 1983 V7 newsletter.

    01:34.33 by Todd Rogers game 4 He was recognized in Activision's Fall 1983 V7 newsletter.


    31. Gravitar 999,950 by Mike Southerland
    Jeffy Arensmeyer
    Todd Rogers
    Max score possible before rollover. Southerland was the 1st person recognized to roll it, as part of Atari's Masters contest. Jeffy's screenshot Todd's screenshot



    32. Gremlins 1,940,980 by Todd Rogers


    33. Jawbreaker 121,400 by Todd Rogers


    34. Journey Escape $105,779,605 by Todd Rogers screenshot and link Todd Rogers claims marathoning this game for 86.4 hours (link), but other videos have shown a scoring rate w/o breaks (the game allows you to pause between every level) would take twice as long to achieve.


    35. Joust 2,150,300 by Todd Rogers easy


    36. Jungle Hunt 851,500* by Todd Rogers* Score is questionable since scores of 100k or more are unheard of


    37.Kaboom! 960,001 by Todd Rogers Difficulty A


    38. Kool-Aid Man 929,500 by Todd Rogers



    39. Krull 1,245,900 by Todd Rogers Suspected of heavy use of point-pressing. Scott Stilphen got 1,006,680 through heavy use of point-pressing screenshot (before rollover) and Atari VCS/2600 Krull scoring trick and glitch


    40. Lock 'N' Chase 999,999 by Todd Rogers screenshot


    42. Lost Luggage 999,999 by Todd Rogers Unknown which version used, green or blue. link


    43. Maurauder 199,980 by Todd Rogers Douglas Korekach got 99,990 link Game rolls at 100k.


    44. Mega Force 1,013,515 by Todd Rogers


    45. Minds of Minos 9,150 by Todd Rogers


    46. Midnight Magic 3,401,240* by William Smith * Difficulty setting unknown. Todd's 999,995 screenshot


    47. Missile Command 7,232,890 by Todd Rogers


    48. Moon Patrol 1,094,100 by Todd Rogers


    49.Ms. Pac-Man 1,596,930 by Todd Rogers


    50. Name this Game 35,980 by Todd Rogers


    51. Oink 999,999 by Todd Rogers
    David Yancey
    Glen Sampson
    Todd Rogers' screenshot

    Glen Sampson's

    52. Pac-Man 3,628,533* by Todd Rogers 47hr game * Score in TG database. Also has a 48hr game of 3,225,628 link. Stephen Foot claimed 6,128,619 on a PAL version and claims he can pause game (info from Atari VCS Owner’s Club Bulletin, Sept 1982 issue) and stopped with 9 lives left!


    101,051 by Todd Rogers game 6, Difficulty A


    53. Plaque Attack 999,999 by Todd Rogers max score screenshot


    54. Popeye 805,750 by Todd Rogers


    55. Pressure Cooker 999,999 by Todd Rogers screenshot


    56. Reactor 1,615,526 by Todd Rogers Todd also has a screenshot of a 999,999 score.


    57. River Raid 796,750 by Todd Rogers 1 life run.


    58. River Raid 2 999,999 by Todd Rogers
    David Yancey Todd's screenshot


    59. Robot Tank 144 tanks by Todd Rogers


    60. Sea Quest 999,999 by Todd Rogers
    David Yancey Todd's screenshot


    61. Shark Attack 999 by Todd Rogers max score possible


    62. Shooting Gallery 1,005,300 by Todd Rogers


    63. Skiing 01:04.25* by Todd Rogers game 2 * Impossible?

    27.94 by Greg Degeneffe

    game 3 video Todd Rogers was recognized for 27.64 in Activision's Winter 1982 V2. This was changed to a 27.54 in the Fall 1982 V4 issue. Atwell Shearer was recognized for the same 27.54 score in the December 1982 V5 issue. Brent Metcalf was recognized in Activision's Fall 1983 V7 newsletter for 27.51. Todd Rogers also has the same score on Twin Galaxies. Douglas Korekach says this score can only be achieved by exploiting the Difficulty switches link.


    27.36 by Greg Degeneffe
    Glen Sampson game 6, Difficulty AA. Glen's video Todd Rogers is recognized for having 27.34 but Glen Sampson says this score can only be achieved by exploiting the Difficulty switches video.

    23.66 by Greg Degeneffe
    Glen Sampson game 7, Difficulty BB. Todd Rogers is recognized for having 23.59 but Glen Sampson says this score can only be achieved by exploiting the Difficulty switches.

    64. Slot Machine 9,999 by Todd Rogers max score possible

    9,999 by Todd Rogers game 7


    65. Snoopy and the Red Baron 1,829,080 by Todd Rogers game 1 (Pilot First Class) 45hr game screenshot and linkSteve Germershausen's scoring rate in his video show approximately 28-29 hours to roll score


    1,947,090 by Todd Rogers game 4 (Pilot in Training) Claims 48 hours to get score


    66. Spacechase 416,605 by Todd Rogers


    67. Squeeze Box 654,420 by Todd Rogers


    68. Stampede 99,999* by Todd Rogers screenshot * Appears to be a different version of the game, as does this screenshot of 13,279. He was recognized for 73,754 in Activision's Spring 1982 V3 newsletter, along with 157,000 for Kenny Vance, although the scores are well beyond what should be possible link since you can't play the game beyond the 8th herd link


    69. Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back 15,931 by Todd Rogers


    70.Starmaster 3,985* by Todd Rogers * Impossible? Ensign


    5,944 by Todd Rogers Leader



    71.Steeplechase (Atari) 01:07:00 by Todd Rogers
    Douglas Korekach


    72.Sub-Scan 94,090 by Scott Stilphen screenshot Todd Rogers claims 1,012,000 which is highly unlikely since point-pressing not possible. Likely the result of a scoring glitch (video).


    73.Tac-Scan 1,094,100 by Todd Rogers


    74.Tapper 982,725 by Todd Rogers screenshot


    75.Taz 999,900* by Todd Rogers screenshot * Claims to have used a rare 1984 released version which scores differently.


    76.Towering Inferno 4,600 by Todd Rogers


    77.Turmoil 1,167,450 by Todd Rogers Score rolls at 100k


    78.Venture 913,200* by Todd Rogers * Score is highly unlikely. Point-pressing not possible.


    79.Video Pinball 91,862,206 by Steve Germershausen Approximately 12 hours. Todd Rogers claims 12,464,974 in 28 hours link. Glen's scoring rate was 8 million/hour, meaning Todd's score should have taken less than 2 hours.


    80.Wabbit 1,698 by Todd Rogers


    81.Warplock 933 by Todd Rogers


    82.Wizard of Wor 864,500 by Todd Rogers


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    Special Note to Twin Galaxy Members From the Website


    https://mg.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch...=952t0jml1hf6k


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    Juan, this site has GOT to be maintained by either David Yancey and/or Scott Stilphen.

    Both of them have major issues with me over the "Donkey Kong" score that Todd Rogers and I each decided as co-senior-referees to not include in the TG database, and Stilphen especially has issues with me over the 2600 "split" into NTSC, PAL and EMU formats.

    The Rodrigo Lopes time of 1:48 remaining on "Pitfall" was disputed because someone claimed this was only do-able via EMU even though months later the time was duplicated on NTSC.

    I've called for specific scores of Corcoran's to be removed over the years but never "all" as that was beyond the scope of my authority...only Walter could have called for that.

    As for scores "removed" this is likely Yancey's comments now that I think of it because he was ticked off that my fellow referees and I pruned the TG database of "easily obtained" scores like Atari 2600 "Doge'em" game B of 1080, "Breakout" game 1B of 864 and others that are too easy to obtain.

    The fact that I am on this list can only be because of one or both of these gamers...I would not put much stock in what this site claims is/is not possible.

    Interesting how I am "banned" having little to no 2600 records at all save for "tie" records on max-score titles.

    I, therefore, challenge the integrity of this entire "Atari Compendium" listing's claims of what is a challenged score because the authors of this list...who are clearly either Yancey, Stilphen or both (among possible others)...are biased themselves.
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    Their Not My Personal Views, Information

    Their a Few Video Game WR's Todd Rogers that are False or Exaggerated can Be Verified on Twin Galaxy & Other Sites Unless they Removed them or Changed them as of Late That is a Fact.

    It is Their Websites and the Information was theirs alone.

    As Far as World Records of Todd Rogers the Majority of his 1000's Plus WR Records are Good but in FACT their are Few Video Game WR's that are Totally False I JJT Johnny did Check Them Out and Verified both with Twin Galaxy and Other Sites

    Yes Todd Rogers Did in Fact Lie or Exaggerated about those Records Come on Robert the Evidence is Their Period.

    The Comments of the Person from are The Owners of the Website that was Evident of Course but they are Not Mine Please Get that Straight Robert

    Todd More Than Likely Got Carried Away he was Young and the Media was Their why Change it.








    I see you asked that Ron Cocoran Twin Galaxy Video Game World Records Be Removed Years Ago. That was Good at Least you tried.


    Ron Cocoran is Another thing All Together MAME & Twin Galaxy did in Fact Have Problems with Him he was Banned a Few times and Their Are Clear Cases of Video Game World Records that He Holds that are in Question I checked a Few


    We Twin Galaxy Members & TG Chief & Owner Jace Hall Should Look into Removing Many of Ron Cocoran Video Game World Records that are In Question

    God Bless You and have Happy 4th of July
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    Agree, there are many scores that need to be looked into...I cited a few that have gnawed at me for 10-15 years depending on when the score claims were recognized by a TG referee.

    I "mostly" trust Stephen Knox...his integrity is impeccable. The only caveat against Stephen is something that I learned from Ron Corcoran back when I was not a referee but submitting 2600 scores to Ron (who was the TG referee for the Atari/Intellivision platforms in the pre-2001 era).

    Ron told me that there were "some" records in his original Snipercade database (the 2600 records were maintained off-TG back in those days and were only manually imported after Ron's departure) which were NOT posted to the list of 2600 top scorers. He said that both he and Stephen felt that if their higher scores were listed that would scare off competition and would not be good for TG.

    I was VERY annoyed when I heard this and told him as much. (EDIT - I specifically remember conveying my annoyance at chasing "phantom scores" to quote from something in Walter's 1st TG BoR so as to drill the point in, but that is not an accurate way to depict that situation...I was getting an undeserved accolade for achieving a TG recognized "record" when in fact a higher score was achieved by a TG staffer not posted to the database, so that made me or rather my achievement feel less-than-prideful of an achievement).

    Can't remember even one of the scores that was not posted to the Snipercade database as this was from the 1998-2000 era when I was submitting 2600/Odyssey 2 scores to TG as a non-referee.

    The scores that should be questioned the most were those where Ron vetted Todd and vice versa, but first and foremost the scores that were self-vetted in the 2002-2003 range for Ron, and in the pre-Jun/05 range by Todd. And I state this not with malice but with audit-prudence in mind.

    -> Ron's self-entry of scores once the new database was revealed is highly suspect. He refused to send any of his performances to another referee at that point, myself included, and scores would suddenly appear out of the blue. I quoted one in particular within the thread on impossible scores...his back-and-forth with Todd on Atari 2600 "Ms Pacman", but from the Atari/CV Deca event of 2000-2001 era he did the same thing with respect to ColecoVision "Gorf".

    Ron and I within the event seemed to be the only players whose carts allowed us to get past a certain point so we voluntarily decided to abide by a 500K cap for the event. I had 500,020 and he had 499,960. A few days AFTER the event, all of a sudden, a score of 500,0040 or 500,0080 was entered by Ron. No notice to ANY referee, not even a pic sent. That one was yanked already, I believe.

    -> Todd's self-entry is a matter of record in that it was the final straw/catalyst for Brien King to design and implement the security measure blocking any TG referee, including myself AND Walter, from self-entry of a score. And the reason for this is crystal clear and was stated within the forum somewhere.

    Tom Votava, perhaps the world's best NES player, contacted me regarding a ridiculously high score on NES "Donkey Kong" in the vacinity of 5.5M points by Todd...verified and entered by Todd...which Tom said was not likely possible.

    Tom was the world champion with 3M+ at the time, since beaten, but Todd's claim was out of this world unrealistic. The score was removed after no proof was offered of gameplay and that was after multiple requests.

    So, as a matter of TG history, and I say this as a matter of fact and nothing more implied, those actions were the reason/catalyst for the security provision to be designed and implemented blocking all referee self-entry of scores from that point on (in the TG system designed by Brien King for the post-2002 era).
    Last edited by RTM; 07-03-2017 at 02:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    Agree, there are many scores that need to be looked into...I cited a few that have gnawed at me for 10-15 years depending on when the score claims were recognized by a TG referee.

    I "mostly" trust Stephen Knox...his integrity is impeccable. The only caveat against Stephen is something that I learned from Ron Corcoran back when I was not a referee but submitting 2600 scores to Ron (who was the TG referee for the Atari/Intellivision platforms in the pre-2001 era).

    Ron told me that there were "some" records in his original Snipercade database (the 2600 records were maintained off-TG back in those days and were only manually imported after Ron's departure) which were NOT posted to the list of 2600 top scorers. He said that both he and Stephen felt that if their higher scores were listed that would scare off competition and would not be good for TG.

    I was VERY annoyed when I heard this and told him as much. (EDIT - I specifically remember conveying my annoyance at chasing "phantom scores" to quote from something in Walter's 1st TG BoR so as to drill the point in, but that is not an accurate way to depict that situation...I was getting an undeserved accolade for achieving a TG recognized "record" when in fact a higher score was achieved by a TG staffer not posted to the database, so that made me or rather my achievement feel less-than-prideful of an achievement).

    Can't remember even one of the scores that was not posted to the Snipercade database as this was from the 1998-2000 era when I was submitting 2600/Odyssey 2 scores to TG as a non-referee.

    The scores that should be questioned the most were those where Ron vetted Todd and vice versa, but first and foremost the scores that were self-vetted in the 2002-2003 range for Ron, and in the pre-Jun/05 range by Todd. And I state this not with malice but with audit-prudence in mind.

    -> Ron's self-entry of scores once the new database was revealed is highly suspect. He refused to send any of his performances to another referee at that point, myself included, and scores would suddenly appear out of the blue. I quoted one in particular within the thread on impossible scores...his back-and-forth with Todd on Atari 2600 "Ms Pacman", but from the Atari/CV Deca event of 2000-2001 era he did the same thing with respect to ColecoVision "Gorf".

    Ron and I within the event seemed to be the only players whose carts allowed us to get past a certain point so we voluntarily decided to abide by a 500K cap for the event. I had 500,020 and he had 499,960. A few days AFTER the event, all of a sudden, a score of 500,0040 or 500,0080 was entered by Ron. No notice to ANY referee, not even a pic sent. That one was yanked already, I believe.

    -> Todd's self-entry is a matter of record in that it was the final straw/catalyst for Brien King to design and implement the security measure blocking any TG referee, including myself AND Walter, from self-entry of a score. And the reason for this is crystal clear and was stated within the forum somewhere.

    Tom Votava, perhaps the world's best NES player, contacted me regarding a ridiculously high score on NES "Donkey Kong" in the vacinity of 5.5M points by Todd...verified and entered by Todd...which Tom said was not likely possible.

    Tom was the world champion with 3M+ at the time, since beaten, but Todd's claim was out of this world unrealistic. The score was removed after no proof was offered of gameplay and that was after multiple requests.

    So, as a matter of TG history, and I say this as a matter of fact and nothing more implied, those actions were the reason/catalyst for the security provision to be designed and implemented blocking all referee self-entry of scores from that point on (in the TG system designed by Brien King for the post-2002 era).
    Robert I'm perplexed here. You state several times how Todd was asked for a copy of a tape from a score/performance he claimed and yet state he never provided any of those to you? Given all these examples you presented in various posts how is it that all of his scores were not removed from TG? Same for Ron C? I am having a hard time understanding this. If I was working back for TG back then I would have made a fairly large issue of this the 2nd time a request was made for a tape he submitted for what most people would consider an outrageous time/score claim and was told "I can't find it". All that seems to happen is the score in question was either removed or (what seems even worse to me) NOTHING happened and everyone just moved on?
    Dan Desjardins
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post
    Robert I'm perplexed here. You state several times how Todd was asked for a copy of a tape from a score/performance he claimed and yet state he never provided any of those to you? Given all these examples you presented in various posts how is it that all of his scores were not removed from TG? Same for Ron C? I am having a hard time understanding this. If I was working back for TG back then I would have made a fairly large issue of this the 2nd time a request was made for a tape he submitted for what most people would consider an outrageous time/score claim and was told "I can't find it". All that seems to happen is the score in question was either removed or (what seems even worse to me) NOTHING happened and everyone just moved on?


    RTM REPLY - Hi Danman1234...I will explain as best as I can.

    First with respect to Todd...

    -> Some (not all) of my initial inquiries were made while I was still chief referee for TG (pre-Aug/05) in the 2004-2005 range and at the time he never complied with the video clips that I had asked for. Additional inquiries were made between my return in Sep/05 as "senior referee" and prior to my departure on 12/19/06.
    -> Some consideration was given to Todd as a fellow staffer as the corroborating referee (Ron) was no longer available and Todd maintained that he had the tapes "amidst hundreds" and needed the time to find and make the requested copies.
    -> By the time of my departure those copies still had not yet manifested and subsequent TG management never followed up.

    The ball was dropped here in affording as a professional courtesy a fellow staffer extra consideration in terms of procuring documentation/backup, and that started with myself and continued after I had left TG. What should have been done is to apply the same standard of documentation to a staffer as we did against the general gaming community.

    It is worth noting that Todd was still a staffer after my departure.

    Now for Ron...

    -> Ron's "departure" from TG made it impossible to verify any of his scores. Truth be told, when the police confiscated his accumulation of TG-related tapes, according to Brien King who found out weeks afterwards, they confiscated approx 125 tapes of which approx 25 were from Todd and 1 was from myself. I never found out what the rest of the tapes were (but see footnote *1 below as a side-note)

    -> Sufficient evidence exists that several of his scores were bogus, most notably his claim of a 100+ hour marathon on Intellivision "Adventures of Tron" and his multiple submissions (and authentications) of Atari 2600 "Ms Pacman" across the span of several days, although there were many more of lesser notoriety.

    -> Although Ron left TG in the early part of 2003, his own scores collectively were not the focus of a score removal effort. The problem was that an undetermined number of his scores were authenticated by Stephen Knox, and those authentications I trust, but a point was reached where Ron and Todd were cross-verifying their scores (especially on "Ms Pacman" for the 2600). To my best recollection we never were able to ascertain definitively which were authenticated by Stephen and which were not. No "extract reporting" of the database existed so such an effort would have to have been made on a per-score-basis. Reasonable or not, there was just never the time of day to do so at the time with everything else that we were responsible for.

    So...the explanation, in a nutshell...the ball was dropped, and an opportunity for improving the integrity of the database was passed up.

    What was done has been done. Several TG staffers, myself included, could have made a greater effort for addressing the above two issues but did not. And certainly management at the highest level both at the time and from subsequent management, did nothing to address the matter. I got zero help from Walter on the 2600 reclass so it comes as no surprise that I got not help from him when questioning some of the scores of fellow referees. But in truth the buck stopped at the referee-level and neither myself, nor my fellow staffers nor the subsequent staffers, did anything to address these issues.

    A FEW scores by Ron and Todd were removed, but not that many. A lot of work still needs to be done, but the current way of doing so (and I discussed this recently in another thread) where a formal process has to be created and documentation provided/etc...I'm not a secretary for TG nor should anyone else act as one at this point. Management should take the bull by the horns and do an across-the-board change to hiatus-status all of Ron's scores EXCEPT those verified by Stephen Knox (aka "Goochman" in the TG database).

    As for Todd's scores, as he is still at least accessible, I recommend starting with a list of the most-questioned items (several of which appear within this thread) and change those to "hiatus status" pending receipt of substantiating documentation. Surely the majority of his scores are likely good, but there are a few red flags that need to be re-verified or at least explained. And in some cases even a short clip will do (such as my earlier request for the final 60 seconds of his 960,001 game "A" on "Kaboom")

    Just my opinion.
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    Forgot to add that footnote regarding the tapes confiscated and returned by the police.

    This is what makes NO sense to me. Ron was the TG referee for both Atari/Intellivision for many years, at least 1998-2002 plus early 2003.

    During this time I personally submitted over 300 scores to Ron on VHS tape for verification, and I was NOT the gamer who could perform on command...I might have submitted a 6 hour tape filled with "Skiing" performances but maybe just 2, 3 or 4 records on it. I estimate that I personally submitted in excess of 75-100 tapes to Ron, the very last of which was comprised solely of Magnavox Odyssey 2 performances on "Pick Axe Pete" (all variations) plus if I remember right the two variations of "Spin Out". These submissions never made it into the TG database.

    So how only one (1) tape was attributed to me is a mystery.

    Even more baffling...just 25 tapes attributed to Todd who had done more than 30 MARATHONS on this system let alone all the other scores. He should have had at least 200-400 tapes with Ron...but just 25 ?? That is barely enough to cover three marathons.

    I never saw those 125 tapes nor received a manifest of what the remaining 100 were. As for the entry of the related scores, you would have to find and ask Brien King at this point as to the whereabouts of these tapes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - Hi Danman1234...I will explain as best as I can.

    As for Todd's scores, as he is still at least accessible, I recommend starting with a list of the most-questioned items (several of which appear within this thread) and change those to "hiatus status" pending receipt of substantiating documentation. Surely the majority of his scores are likely good, but there are a few red flags that need to be re-verified or at least explained. And in some cases even a short clip will do (such as my earlier request for the final 60 seconds of his 960,001 game "A" on "Kaboom")

    Just my opinion.
    This is where we apparently differ greatly in opinions. How many times does someone have to come along and go "look this time/score I just don't believe is possible", provide the evidence why it is, and people will still present a variety of excuses why its not (or just ignore it altogether. I'll just keep referring to the Splatterhouse TG-16 claim). How much of this should be required before people finally say enough is enough? There really is more than enough evidence here that ALL of Ron C and Todd R scores should be removed from TG regardless if one of them was done live during the super bowl halftime show for 100 million people to witness. Just my opinion....
    Dan Desjardins
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post
    This is where we apparently differ greatly in opinions. How many times does someone have to come along and go "look this time/score I just don't believe is possible", provide the evidence why it is, and people will still present a variety of excuses why its not (or just ignore it altogether. I'll just keep referring to the Splatterhouse TG-16 claim). How much of this should be required before people finally say enough is enough? There really is more than enough evidence here that ALL of Ron C and Todd R scores should be removed from TG regardless if one of them was done live during the super bowl halftime show for 100 million people to witness. Just my opinion....


    RTM REPLY - actually...the way that I feel now, and not back when I was a chief referee or later senior referee and was beholden to a higher authority (Walter) for major decisions...we do not differ much at all. Keep in mind that a lot of what I state now is a historical recap of what went down back then.

    Current TG management has its own decision-making and policies. Certainly current management has within its rights the capacity to make the tough call and layeth the smack down big-time with a mass removal. Or, current management can create a precursory "poll" to gather opinions before considering such actions.

    In my own history with TG there were only three (3) instances where ALL the scores were summarily removed from the database, and they had different "ending stories"....

    Case (1) - at an ACAM event from either 2000 or 2001, gamer Zack Hample proved beyond all doubt that the arcade game "Breakout" had a max score...such had never been achieved before in recorded TG history, and consultation with ACAM's own operator's manual confirmed as much. This debunked the existing (at the time) world record recognized by TG, and as it turns out that same individual ALSO had a ridiculously high score listed on "Astro Fighter" well in excess of 50K (a mark since reached by Fred Pastore via MAME). Walter made the judgment call to remove all (in this case both) scores from the person in the TG database citing the original TG Book of Records rules governing score removal, and he made the decision quickly and live during the event. The scores were never re-entered at any point including the "Astro Fighter" which years later was proven CAN be done by another gamer as mentioned.

    Case (2) - ample evidence over the years had mounted regarding gamer Roy Shildt's "Missile Command" performances, so much so that I could easily eclipse the posting cap that Jace had assigned to me for characters per reply...and that was just towards his TGTS claim. His marathon claim was yet another BS score that he had under multiple occasions refused to provide even the slightest bit of recollection on. Collectively his claims were highly questionable and as such his scores were summarily removed (by myself) from the TG database in Q4'06.

    Walter pulled the Kumbaya card and steadfastly maintained that the scores had still been done even though all of his referees and most trusted consultants had advised him were bogus for so many reasons accumulated over the years. Still, Walter held fast and re-entered the scores in question. As it turns out this was the final straw for me (one of several) and I immediately resigned my position with Twin Galaxies.

    Fast forward three months and in a Feb/07 "All Games" interview Roy revealed that he had been playing under what he called were "Atari Rules"...something he never mentioned, not once, during all his dealings with TG from 1985 thru 2006...in which he said that if his marathon game ended due to the game resetting at any point he could pop in another credit and tally the two scores together. This statement alone showed why he was so evasive for so many years from 2000 thru 2006 about his marathon score specifics and also proved that his scores were highly questionable due to lack of integrity. But at minimum the same statute applied to the "Breakout" game should have been applied to Roy...and I did just that...but Walter opted to ignore his own stated poilcies and rules and kept them in the database.

    Case (3) - this relates to more than one gamer, and whose names are both forgotten and irrelevant to this anecdote.

    During the proofreading effort of the 2nd TG Book of Records, the participating TG staff were sent every few days a series of PDF files my Walter to review and fact check. During one such mailing it was discovered that he had, without consulting any other TG staffer, entered nearly 100 (possibly more) scores that he discovered on a piece of paper from what he called the "old TG Tamagachi database" or however he pronounced it at the time (this was during 2005-2006 so my memory of the exact word is sharp but he never told us the "spelling" of this).

    Some of these scores were ridiculously high, and the vast majority of them all came from the same arcade promoting the achievements of the same group of players, some of which had multiple world record scores each ridiculously high, and in some cases impossibly high.

    With NO proof to go on other than this piece of paper supplied by an overseas "TG Affiliate" with zero shred of supporting documentation, the TG staff proofreading the book rallied and demanded that Walter immediately remove these un-provable scores en-masse from the TG database. As it turns out, in many cases the scores in question were not even entered into the TG database directly and instead were entered directly into the publishing database as it was Walter's intent to save formatting time and then at some point to subsequently enter them into the live TG database.

    With Walter pulling stunts like this without warning the proofreaders this compounded the difficulty of our efforts considerably. The proofreading continued even after I had left TG and, see for yourself, the 2nd BoR is RIFE with clerical errors...check out a world record attributed to me on a game called "Strikers-something" s being set at Funspot...not only had I never seen or played the game before, it was never part of the ACAM collection at Funspot. There are many dozens of errors in that tome and likely over a hundred...I never bothered to fact check after printing once I saw how many other errors were attributed to me alone never mind the errors that I spotted attributed to other gamers.

    In any event, not all calls to yank all scores permanently happen as per the stated TG rules governing such actions. This is inconsistent, yes, but only because senior management at certain times was reluctant to enforce its own policies with a zero-tolerance policy.
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