thread

Answers regarding Kaboom, Donkey Kong & Robert Mruczek

User Tag List

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 86
  1. Answers regarding Kaboom, Donkey Kong & Robert Mruczek

    07-24-2017, 06:00 PM
    #1
    Something has came up in relevance to Robert Mruczek, the former Twin Galaxies referee, and I would like to clear the air. Recently his name has been brought up on several occasions, and one in particular is regarding my Dragster world record and several other key gaming issues.


    Robert has dedicated more time to Twin Galaxies then any other referee that I know of, other then myself and Walter Day. Robert would spend the greater part of his day AFTER a full day of work until 2am in the morning verifying submissions and reviewing video tapes to make sure that no one cheated or did anything differently then the next player submitting on the same game, keeping gaming on a level playing field. His diligence, time, money, and effort should not go un-noticed. He has worked so hard to make gaming fun and competitive.


    Sure, Robert and I had some difference of opinions in the past, and some of those differences included removing of some of my scores due to video tapes not being delivered to his residence for verification or other reasons listed later in this post.


    Scott Stilphen and David Yancey posted several times on the forums with their findings, which had differences with Robert's findings. Everyone is entitled to what they believe in or what they discover in gaming. Since Robert was a senior & chief referee at that time and I was a senior referee, we both had the power to determine what was acceptable and what was not and to moritorium some of those scores and to delete some from the database that looked suspicious. We both had the authority to review scores live without the presence of a co-referee or a video tape. It was what referees did, to discuss matters of removal amongst themselves to make sure that removal of a score was voted on and not just by one referee.


    Here is one example of the problems, a score on the Atari 2600 "Ms.PacMan". For a brief period of approx 2 weeks or so, Ron Corcoran and I were increasing our Atari 2600 "Ms Pacman" scores in a back-and-forth contest to see who could score higher and who was the better Ms.PacMan player. The scores were 1.45M, 1.5M, 1.7M, 1.8M< etc and kept climbing. Each of us was churning out a score every other day...especially Ron who was supposedly working at the time. The problem with this is who was verifying RON'S scores during this back-and-forth? I know Robert didn't. This was the catalyst for Brien King building a feature that blocked refs from entering their own scores.


    An instance where the refs had to make a decision about a game and how it was played was the Atari 2600 "Infiltrate" - as I recall Robert challenged me to get more than 40K. He did that because it was seemingly impossible to pass that point score in the game. So I figured out that a technique of leeching in limited fashion just enough to get you to go from one point on the screen to another then again for the return trip was the only way possible. Robert agreed that this was acceptable for the title, since the game did continue play as intended. That is what the TG referees of that era agreed upon...that would be at minimum Robert Mruczek, Brien King and Ron Corcoran when this agreement was reached.


    Another case in particular was the Atari 2600 "Donkey Kong" submission. After many posts about the anomalies of this game, we found out through others that there were several versions sold to the public. The one in Roberts case had issues with the fireballs around the 800k mark and you couldnt pass that level, Roberts cart did not allow control of fireballs at all. But at the approx 800K mark where Robert lost his two remaining lives, the fireballs were doing things that made it impossible to pass the level, most especially sitting on the rivet itself. With fireball control that would have been a cakewalk but without it that was a virtual kill screen. David Yancey's cart and mine didnt have such issues at that point value which allowed us to score much higher. Robert and I came to a professional agreement on the removal of the DK score. Until someone else could beat the 1 million point mark....or making it up to 800k on one man with out dying the score would be removed.


    Another game in the spotlight was the Atari 2600 "Barnstorming" (3-B) score that I had in the data base. It was proven to me that the method / pattern that I used at a live event was different then the cartridge that was sold commercially and that perhaps I played on a prototype. I agreed to have that score removed from the data base. I then went to a live event to show that the current world record at that time could be beaten on the commercially sold cartridge. I performed live at the CGE Classic Gaming Expo in front of three Twin Galaxies referees as well as 30+ on lookers who watched me beat the current world record at that show. Robert also ran a TIME Decca in 2002, "Barnstorming" (1-B) in which I attained a 32.67 via an AVI file sent to him and he personally verified and logged in the competition as valid. He stands by that to this day that I did a 32.67 for that event...a time that is disputed to this day by nay-sayers just as my 32.50 was. Robert no longer has the file as he sent all his TG property to Brien King and Kelly Flewin when he left TG in Dec 19/06.


    //www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...-Final-Results


    There were some 1700 of my scores that were lost from the data base or point blank just never put into the data base by Ron. Gone were several tapes proving scores that are in question, including my 14 video tape 85hrs marathon on the Atari 2600 "Journey Escape". After Ron's trouble was settled, Brien King got the tapes back from the police department, as Robert had been re-telling over the years, but he was only given approx 125 tapes from the police of which just one (1) was from Robert and just 25 or so were from me...and no other tapes were returned by the police. Just 25 tapes attributed to me could in no way at all begin to represent the totality of what was sent to Ron...My marathon performances alone, a good 30 of them, would have accounted for easily 100 or more tapes. There were many submissions that were lost, and when questions arise pertaining to certain scores there is no proof that they were even done, not just by me but by many others that were submitted to Ron Corcoran. So all documentation from these tapes is forever lost. And to top it all off, I don't think that Brien King EVER gave Robert back his tape so the final submissions sent to Ron by Robert...all Odyssey 2-based...never made it into the TG database. It would have been me that replaced Ron after he lost his referee position and I would have been the referee who would have verified Robert's Odyssey 2 submissions.


    There are a number of people who still show their dislike for me, and the previous Twin Galaxies administration. Several recent posts come to mind, the comments about the current Dragster YouTube video posted by EZScape


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vuVYo4TXns


    People like (Danman) and (KarbuncleX Or also known as FireBrandX on Twin Galaxies = Mike Morrow) iterate comments and postings trying to make me look like a lesser of a player all based on heresay and speculation from what they have heard or think.


    Here are four examples regarding the Barnstorming issue stated from KarbuncleX:
    "He'll do it live and you'll be eating your hat", etc. Well we were ready to eat our hats, but such demonstrations never happened" << This is a flat out lie as I did do the performace at that CGE event and made a new world record.


    "He let it stand as is for decades" << Decades ??? Really??? I think the year was 2002 when all that controversy came about "Barnstorming", and I also believe that the subject came up again in 2013. I put that entire debate to rest..but to say decades? Just how many years do you think have passed since YOUR initial investigation into Barnstorming??? Again, this issue was resvoled. Yet here we are in 2017 and you're still going on about it, rather then saying that I redid the performance on an official cart live at the CGE event to make everyone happy and in agreement. No, you'd rather rake me over the coals again about something that was long past. WHO is the one here holding a grudge?...Not me.


    "I lost all trust in Todd, and indeed the friendship was broken" << Friendship??? You make it sound like we were buddies. Don't mislead the public. We were just fellow referees at Twin Galaxies trying to support the gaming community by making a level playing field for others to enjoy.


    "It still brings back very bitter memories for me as to how I was treated when I knew for a fact the record was bogus."?
    << YOU were never treated ill by me, even though I was your intended target. I still showed you respect. The only issue that I'm aware of is that you had problems with others at TG and that you were trying to turn Twin Galaxies into your very own "FirebrandX" site. You had a bit of arrogance that other referees didn't like, and they often commented about it. Even Walter thought that you were a bit full of your own ego. As for me, I avoided all confrontation without being nasty to anyone. You mention friends in your comments above. When I reached out to make contact with you on your facebook account several years ago, you blocked me, and so we couldn't settle our differences. These are not the actions of a mature person who wants to get to the bottom of things.

    I hope that finally the above clears up many things that have been problematic in the past and they can finally be placed behind us. So much time is wasted on things that have been resolved already, lets move forward to doing things more positive.

    -Todd Rogers
    Thanks RTM, Barthax, RaGe, Dave Hawksett, Tfried4048 and 6 others thanked this post
    Likes nads, Barthax, RaGe, spectre, Tfried4048 and 5 others liked this post
  2. 07-24-2017, 06:10 PM
    #2
    Todd, thanks for the post !!

    One typo to correct in paragraph 8...it was game 1B, not 3B, but based on the times cited it would have to be 1B so this is an honest typo.

    "Another game in the spotlight was the Atari 2600 "Barnstorming" (3-B) score that I had in the data base."
    Likes Barthax, noyasystem liked this post
  3. 07-24-2017, 06:13 PM
    #3
    The good news is that all of the consoles that you excel at are still available. TGSAP now exists, so you can submit new performances, put the naysayers to rest, and enshrine your scores in history with video evidence. I look forward to seeing your submissions.
    Thanks Fly, noyasystem thanked this post
    Likes Fly liked this post
  4. 07-24-2017, 06:22 PM
    #4
    EDIT: I am removing negative references to Mr David Yancey on this day of August 26th, 2017, due to my inaccurate recollection of his negative opinion towards myself and Twin Galaxies based on David clearing the air on the TG forum on this day

    Thanks as well for making public our professional agreement RE Atari 2600 "Donkey Kong". All the years of claptrap by Stilphen had taken their toll as their version of what we agreed upon differed widely from the truth.

    Not sure if Kelly Flewin or Brien King would still have all the AVI files from the Atari time deca event as you surely did a 32.67 for that event. I suspect that when the 32.50 was wiped no one remaining at TG was aware of the also-verified 32.67 since the database never stored a complete history per variation/player/score each time a player submitted a better performance.

    As for "Dragster", can't wait for you to achieve a 5.51 again. As with seeing a 30M point "Zookeeper" jump or a new "Super Mario Brothers" speed-run record, this is one of those performances that everyone would want to see :)
    Last edited by RTM; 08-26-2017 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Editing to remove inaccurate recollection of David Yancey's involvement
    Thanks DadsGlasses thanked this post
    Likes DadsGlasses, spectre liked this post
  5. 08-08-2017, 11:03 AM
    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    Thanks as well for making public our professional agreement RE Atari 2600 "Donkey Kong". All the years of claptrap by Stilphen and Yancey had taken their toll as their version of what we agreed upon differed widely from the truth.

    Not sure if Kelly Flewin or Brien King would still have all the AVI files from the Atari time deca event as you surely did a 32.67 for that event. I suspect that when the 32.50 was wiped no one remaining at TG was aware of the also-verified 32.67 since the database never stored a complete history per variation/player/score each time a player submitted a better performance.

    As for "Dragster", can't wait for you to achieve a 5.51 again. As with seeing a 30M point "Zookeeper" jump or a new "Super Mario Brothers" speed-run record, this is one of those performances that everyone would want to see :)
    Ok im confused what exactly was done / cleared up in that post from Todd?

    This is what I got out of it.
    .
    1. Me and Ron did indeed get multi million point scores on Ms Pac Man every other day.
    2. I leeched Infiltrate.
    3. Donkey Kong - Still no explanation of the 050 claim in the score.
    4. Barnstorming - The issue was Todds 32.04 time firebrandx had an issue with. 32.50 people have issues with as well because again claims were made that video was going to be provided for everyone and afterwards this was the response. "O.K., here is the deal. As far as CGE is concerned, we were all swamped (Todd ran the 4 Atari 2600 events, Brien King ran the CV tournament and I ran the Robotron event as well as the TG booth). Due to the hectic tournament schedule, Todd was unable to give a "public" demonstration, however, he did have time after the show Sunday and was able to accomplish 32.50 which we did capture on VHS." After the event was over AFAIK no one saw that video. That is the issue IMO.

    I note how it was just glossed over how scores were removed because no video evidence was provided to Robert. Like somehow that is not an actual real big issue in all of these discussions we have had. Its also a bunch of scores that were NOT removed that were never provided to Robert. Even when all that was requested was just the last few minutes/seconds of a game. NONE of the video evidence you ask for Robert was ever presented was it?? This is also more than just the 4 games/points listed above. Its several of scores/times/etc and this is soooooooo easy to resolve by just DOING IT and submitting records for all to see. I dont understand how everyone (including Todd apparently) doesn't see this.
    Dan Desjardins
  6. 08-08-2017, 01:53 PM
    #6
    I've definitely got no dog in this fight, but I am curious about the Dragster time that everyone keeps posting about. It's less than 6 seconds. I'm sure he could achieve the 5.51 score in an hour worth of attempts. I hope I see a submission up for adjudication. Put all the doubters to rest while giving a big middle finger using your own score. That's the ultimate "Mic drop" if you ask me.
  7. 08-09-2017, 04:49 PM
    #7
    "People like (Danman) and (KarbuncleX Or also known as FireBrandX on Twin Galaxies = Mike Morrow) iterate comments and postings trying to make me look like a lesser of a player all based on heresay and speculation from what they have heard or think." This is just flatout false. It's not heresay and speculation, it's the inability to replicate your records even with tool assistance after years of attempts, and the code suggesting it's not possible. That is far stronger evidence that the record is impossible than there is for you actually doing it (which is basically just people's word). I'm sorry if this annoys you but it's just a fact, you need to either respond to the evidence provided, replicate the runs, or just accept people won't believe them.
    Last edited by bitplayer; 08-09-2017 at 04:55 PM.
    Thanks danman1234, DadsGlasses thanked this post
    Likes danman1234, D.B. Cooper liked this post
  8. 08-10-2017, 08:29 PM
    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post
    This is what I got out of it.
    .
    1. Me and Ron did indeed get multi million point scores on Ms Pac Man every other day.
    2. I leeched Infiltrate.
    3. Donkey Kong - Still no explanation of the 050 claim in the score.
    4. Barnstorming - The issue was Todds 32.04 time firebrandx had an issue with. 32.50 people have issues with as well because again claims were made that video was going to be provided for everyone and afterwards this was the response. "O.K., here is the deal. As far as CGE is concerned, we were all swamped (Todd ran the 4 Atari 2600 events, Brien King ran the CV tournament and I ran the Robotron event as well as the TG booth). Due to the hectic tournament schedule, Todd was unable to give a "public" demonstration, however, he did have time after the show Sunday and was able to accomplish 32.50 which we did capture on VHS." After the event was over AFAIK no one saw that video. That is the issue IMO.

    EDIT: I am removing negative references to Mr David Yancey on this day of August 26th, 2017, due to my inaccurate recollection of his negative opinion towards myself and Twin Galaxies based on David clearing the air on the TG forum on this day




    RTM REPLY - Hi Danman1234, I would like to respond on the first few points...

    1st - I'll never understand to this day how that was possible, to be honest...If I were personally going to spend time playing, for example, Atari 2600 "Space Invaders" game 1B daily and each day a friend and I leap-frogged over our previous day's record by 10K, that would personally irritate the heck out of me never mind waste my time in the process

    2nd - that was just to show the history of the TG management decision back then, nothing more implied

    3rd - this was to explain how Todd and I came to agree on the early decision regarding his 15M submission as a LOT of BS was posted publicly on the matter by one person with an axe to grind

    4th - one of the reasons this was posted was to corroborate the 32.67 he achieved in the time deca event...which I ran and personally verified...as his 32.67 was eliminated from the TG scoreboard in error
    Last edited by RTM; 08-26-2017 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Editing to remove inaccurate recollection of David Yancey's involvement
  9. 08-11-2017, 03:36 AM
    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    RTM REPLY - Hi Danman1234, I would like to respond on the first few points...

    1st - I'll never understand to this day how that was possible, to be honest...If I were personally going to spend time playing, for example, Atari 2600 "Space Invaders" game 1B daily and each day a friend and I leap-frogged over our previous day's record by 10K, that would personally irritate the heck out of me never mind waste my time in the process

    2nd - that was just to show the history of the TG management decision back then, nothing more implied

    3rd - this was to explain how Todd and I came to agree on the early decision regarding his 15M submission as a LOT of BS was posted publicly on the matter by two people with an axe to grind

    4th - one of the reasons this was posted was to corroborate the 32.67 he achieved in the time deca event...which I ran and personally verified...as his 32.67 was eliminated from the TG scoreboard in error
    would love to know what flight path Todd ran to get the 32:67.

    I haven't seen a time less than 32:74 and this includes a TAS run
  10. 08-11-2017, 05:12 AM
    #10
    Axes to grind, everyone questioning his scores just dislikes him, they are all evil blah blah blah. . . . Pathetic. Look at Omnigamer and the TASvideos guys investigations into Dragster, they are not after Tod, they were trying to learn how he done it to make the ultimate TAS run, most of them assumed the record was legit, they just found the evidence suggested it was impossible, it wasn't just trying to replicate it, multiple people tried and failed that, but also looking at the code of the game. Proving a record to be impossible is an extremely high bar, several fake speedrun records were not only possible but beaten, that any of his records fail this test is suspecious, because there is so little evidence we can see we basically just have to trust. And even if the people arguing they are fake are just doing it to be jerks, that doesn't matter, if they provide good evidence their argument still standso
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Join us