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Dispute: Patrick Maher - Arcade - Marvel VS Capcom - Points [Tournament Settings] - Player: Adam Stombaugh - Score: 2120509

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    Excellent, thank you Swaggers for you investigations.

    Please keep the analyses coming, we will settle this dispute once we know enough based on members' expert advice.

    Please also consider that the dispute concerns the validity of the score, by the established rules, rather than whether or not the track itself is valid.

    Having said that, if people are concerned about the rules of this track being against the spirit of record-breaking, then this is certainly the right place to say so.


    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers View Post
    OK so I tested the 981023 US rom in MAME .188.

    I confirmed that when someone buys in the main score stops and you are immediately put into a side match with the new player 2. After the win you go back to the stage you were on and face the same stage, with different opponents, and have gained 1 point.

    You do not lose any points from the previous AI match. So you could get as points as you wanted on a easy early stage, buy in player 2, and then restart the earlier stage with all your points intact.

    You could also obviously abuse this by having player 2 Buy-In if you were about to lose a match.

    I stand by Rejecting this score based on these two situations not being in the spirit of trying to accomplish a WR.
  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,514
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers View Post
    You could also obviously abuse this by having player 2 Buy-In if you were about to lose a match.
    This is the main reason to be skeptical of anything that doesn't end in a zero. High scores in these games are mostly about farming perfect rounds - having challenges allowed can be abused to give the player unlimited do overs for botched matches.
  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,238
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    To that end, a buy-in most certainly changes the course of the AI. I'm sure that others that have spent significant time on the Capcom fighters can attest that sometimes the AI is more difficult, sometimes it's more lenient. But no mater what it is, it is the intended progression from start-to-finish, on a 1cc run. A buy-in/more-than-1-cc represents an interruption to the progression of the game's responses. It may be advantageous to the player, it may be disadvantageous to the player, but to me at least, it is not an apples-to-apples comparison to an uninterrupted run against the computer.

    I'll give an example of "sometimes the AI is more difficult, sometimes it's more lenient". On Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition, if I get all perfects up to the barrel bonus stage, the barrel bonus stage has a higher likelihood to produce barrels that require multiple (two) hits to smash instead of breaking from a single hit. There is a degree of greater difficulty in maintaining timing to get a perfect barrel stage, every time a multi-smash barrel occurs. With all perfects going into the barrel stage, there is a higher likelihood that the stage will produce 2, 3 or 4 multi-smash barrels. I have had 5 multi-smash barrels on at least one occurrence (don't recall what my performance was like up to that point). And, last night, I had my best pace/run to date going, with all perfects going into the barrel stage, and got zero multi-smash barrels.

    A bit of a long-winded example, but hopefully it adds to the debate that the AI has certain patterns, and a buy-in represents a potential to disrupt those patterns, making a game that has had a buy-in (or multiple buy-ins) occur not the same as one performed with no buy-ins.
    Matthew 21:22

    Street Fighter (15th) Anniversary Collection: Hyper Street Fighter II World Champion (PS2)

    My current collection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKzvF3dRPsw
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,577
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    hold up. i played this arcade on expert difficulty and it wouldnt let me continue no matter how many credits i put into the machine. once i lost, it took me back to the beginning of the game.
    The Circle Leader
    King of Genesis
    Son of GinaLee
  5. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    Thanks @Jesse Porter for your experiment! Did you try this at an arcade or on your own machine? My first thought is that what you experienced could have been due to machine settings.

    The conclusion of this dispute will have implications for three other scores on this track, including the top one. Do we have other experts on this game who would like to chip in on this dispute?
  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,340
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    I just fired up my machine to test what I already know. I just wanted to make sure my settings were correct just in case something crazy or different happens to scores when on TG settings. The only way to get 09 at the end of your score is to have either 9 continues or 9 join ins or any combination of the 2 till you get to 09. And yes, I was able to continue. I didn't see a setting that turned them off either.

    The rules need to be updated for no join ins and the scores with points in the 10's or 1's column need to be thrown out. Allowing join ins will just lead to score exploits from well timed join ins.

    Hec
    If you need me, I'll be on the 7th floor.
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  7. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    Much appreciated @Fly it does seem odd that there is a track for this game that allows join ins, but not a track that insists on pure solo play.
  8. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 7,199
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    As far as the continuing thing (or not being able to), that is an option set in the test menu. Just checked ours at galloping ghost:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    Thank you @GGA HAN and everyone so far. This growing set of evidence is a great example of what we knew the community as a whole could do when it comes to getting things fixed.
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  10. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    Thanks @Jesse Porter for your experiment! Did you try this at an arcade or on your own machine? My first thought is that what you experienced could have been due to machine settings.

    The conclusion of this dispute will have implications for three other scores on this track, including the top one. Do we have other experts on this game who would like to chip in on this dispute?
    i played it at a barcade in my area. what game setting could possibly do this? all of the setting for this game should be listed in the track rules.
    The Circle Leader
    King of Genesis
    Son of GinaLee
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