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Dispute: John McAllister - M.A.M.E. - Crazy Kong [Set 1] - Points - Player: Benjamin J Walbeehm - Score: 638700

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 09-06-2017, 02:14 PM
    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Barra View Post
    Definitely move it to a new track.
    As DB said it's just a trick people use to get past the kill screen and sometimes point press the pies (hammer drop)

    DKF allows it so no reason why TG shouldn't. Silly rule to have in the first place but that's beyond the point :)
    But why not just amend the current track to allow it instead of splitting scores up? This skip trick is only used in very specific spot (to avoid kill screen). How many of the current scores for this track are KSs?
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

    My Youtube channel: //www.youtube.com/CraigARG
    MAME World Records channel: //www.youtube.com/MAMEWorldRecords
    Likes Barra liked this post
  2. 09-06-2017, 02:30 PM
    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post

    Can anyone provide examples of other scores in which a glitch/exploit similar to this one was acceptable?

    If we create this track, will its reasoning be consistent with other discussions about glitches, exploits, cheats and the 'spirit of the game'?
    sorry I can't remember the title, but there was a space theme shooter where a player could score a hefty bonus for performing a sequence, and members indicated that the exploit was widely known by those who compete on the game and was deemed acceptable. I'll try and track down the submission unless someone beats me to it.
  3. 09-06-2017, 02:32 PM
    #23
    Hmmm - on reflection the exploit might be different enough that's it's not relevant - will still try and identify the game
  4. 09-06-2017, 02:34 PM
    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener View Post
    sorry I can't remember the title, but there was a space theme shooter where a player could score a hefty bonus for performing a sequence, and members indicated that the exploit was widely known by those who compete on the game and was deemed acceptable. I'll try and track down the submission unless someone beats me to it.
    Phoenix and Astro Fighter both have such items. I think Phoenix is a death-knell move but I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

    Are you on my radar?
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
  5. 09-06-2017, 02:47 PM
    #25
    Didn't TG import a bunch of scores from MARP to build its initial MAME catalog? It's possible Ben's CK score is one such importation. And historically speaking, it's well within the range of TG to change rules after the fact, or adopt new rules without checking for compliance.

    The no-skip rules are not something to which serious CK players adhere, as the game can only be played at the highest level (literally and figuratively) when all "glitches" are allowed. There's no understanding why the no-skip rules were instituted in the first place because they are objectively awful to anyone familiar with the game.

    But here we are, once again, stuck with the mistakes of TG's past, and forced to further complicate the scoreboard. An "everything allowed" track already exists for arcade CK, so in my opinion the most straightforward solution is to create a parallel track for MAME and move Ben's score.

    This issue was created entirely by poor bookkeeping on TG's part and should in no way reflect on the legacy of Ben.

    Food for thought: I'd prefer a purging of the no-skip rules altogether and a merging of all scores to one consolidated track. After all, the rules should never have existed and for the majority of scores there's no way now to prove who and who did not follow them.
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  6. 09-06-2017, 02:56 PM
    #26
    Hmm yes I agree and can't see any problem with amending the rules to allow any glitches (change the bonus life rule too for heavens sake)

    Might annoy some of the current score holders who played by the "rules" but doesn't make sense for them to compete against a score that didn't (whether known at the time or not)

    tl;dr amend rules
  7. 09-06-2017, 02:57 PM
    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by d3scride View Post
    This skip trick is only used in very specific spot (to avoid kill screen).
    The floor skip can actually be employed on any barrel board to maximize point-pressing potential, it's just very risky and skill-intensive. The floor skip raises the skill ceiling, and thus should be considered fair game.
  8. 09-06-2017, 03:03 PM
    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by dwwnp View Post
    The floor skip can actually be employed on any barrel board to maximize point-pressing potential, it's just very risky and skill-intensive. The floor skip raises the skill ceiling, and thus should be considered fair game.
    Ah thanks for the clarification. Has anyone ever completed a full game using that skip on every applicable barrel board? What kind of scores would that yield roughly?
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

    My Youtube channel: //www.youtube.com/CraigARG
    MAME World Records channel: //www.youtube.com/MAMEWorldRecords
  9. 09-06-2017, 03:19 PM
    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by d3scride View Post
    Ah thanks for the clarification. Has anyone ever completed a full game using that skip on every applicable barrel board? What kind of scores would that yield roughly?
    Lakeman has the record with 793K but I doubt he used the skip on every barrel, as it's just so damn risky once you're low on men. @xelnia likely verified the score so hopefully he can chime in with a more complete answer. I'm also unaware of the realistic maximum for CK, but I have to imagine Lakeman and Tudose are close. There's the question of the top hammer and whether it can be used to consistent benefit -- it might net fewer points than simple grouping, it's incredibly difficult to grab without dying, and currently no top player has integrated it into their game (except for maybe Bersky).
  10. 09-06-2017, 05:05 PM
    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by dwwnp View Post
    Lakeman has the record with 793K but I doubt he used the skip on every barrel, as it's just so damn risky once you're low on men. @xelnia likely verified the score so hopefully he can chime in with a more complete answer. I'm also unaware of the realistic maximum for CK, but I have to imagine Lakeman and Tudose are close. There's the question of the top hammer and whether it can be used to consistent benefit -- it might net fewer points than simple grouping, it's incredibly difficult to grab without dying, and currently no top player has integrated it into their game (except for maybe Bersky).
    In Robbie's 793k game, he used the floor skip on every barrel board (including Level 22-1) except Level 1-1, and he was successful in each attempt. In other words, he was 21 for 21 in floor skips for that game. I think the last conversations regarding CK scoring potential put 850k as being the equivalent of a DK 1.2M score. This kind of scoring is not possible without using the floor skip.
    Thanks Barra thanked this post
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