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Dispute: Simon Leitch - iOS - Candy Crush Saga - World 1: Episode 1: Candy Town: Level 6 - Player: Rodrigo Lopes - Score: 71,320

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    Yes we want an accurate and efficient database but the Black Tiger issue is not the same as what we have here. Players can use the same hardware specs as others to compete on the same game on a level playing field. But with games that have updates, players can now only play the latest version.

    If we had a separate track for each game version, then people would only be able to compete on the latest. Each new patch will make the current track redundant and we would need to start a new leader board. This will only last until the next patch, and so on.

    As already pointed out, events like Star Chaser are aimed at keeping a supported game alive. While there are past events in games that gave you an advantage, players can usually look forward to future events which will change things again.

    I see patches and discrete events as something we will probably have to live with, to avoid having more tracks than Earth has humans. Taking Formula 1 as an example, they have changed their rules numerous times, including during the aftermath of the deaths of Senna and Ratzenburger in 1994. They have recently changed their rules again.

    No F1 fans nor industry members would want to see the F1 database split each time there is a change. For games with updates I believe the scores should be presented as they are. The players most interested in a specific score will be aware of issues surrounding updates and will include them when talking about the score with other experts. This is what F1 fans do when comparing results pre and post 1994. It gives them more reason to debate and discuss their hobby, and who doesn’t like doing that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    Yes we want an accurate and efficient database but the Black Tiger issue is not the same as what we have here. Players can use the same hardware specs as others to compete on the same game on a level playing field. But with games that have updates, players can now only play the latest version.

    If we had a separate track for each game version, then people would only be able to compete on the latest. Each new patch will make the current track redundant and we would need to start a new leader board. This will only last until the next patch, and so on.

    As already pointed out, events like Star Chaser are aimed at keeping a supported game alive. While there are past events in games that gave you an advantage, players can usually look forward to future events which will change things again.

    I see patches and discrete events as something we will probably have to live with, to avoid having more tracks than Earth has humans. Taking Formula 1 as an example, they have changed their rules numerous times, including during the aftermath of the deaths of Senna and Ratzenburger in 1994. They have recently changed their rules again.

    No F1 fans nor industry members would want to see the F1 database split each time there is a change. For games with updates I believe the scores should be presented as they are. The players most interested in a specific score will be aware of issues surrounding updates and will include them when talking about the score with other experts. This is what F1 fans do when comparing results pre and post 1994. It gives them more reason to debate and discuss their hobby, and who doesn’t like doing that?
    F1 also has a new race each time to compete for first on (Like a new scoreboard). They aren't competing against a time from 1987 and trying to "Win" that race. Anyway there is no easy way around this stuff. If a new patch is a problem then it should just not be tracked and that isn't going to happen. Eventually someone will get some magical 5x event that only happens once and someone is lucky enough to play on this and choose to submit here they will hold the record forever. Just how it will work. These scores for all these IOS/Android and all new games really should REQUIRE which version they were playing on to be documented along with special events (if known) so there is a discussion to have later regardless of which event/etc was going on but c'est la vie.
    Dan Desjardins
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    The Angry Birds suit of games and Hill Climb Racing do not permit newer features because the rules were written before those features existed. In order to maintain a level playing field, it's necessary for the community to rally around the changes and decide what fits best for the game.

    Are you on my radar?
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
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    I think we have to accept we need to accept something imperfect, because if you we rules out anything imperfect the only option is to not track at all, and refusing to track at all is far worse. so lets look at some imperfect options which are actually possible, as well as some imperfect options that seem feasable but arent

    split the tracks -- not possible already discussed why
    add a version box -- this is borderline. the date sort of does this, but if record on one date and submit on another thats not perfect. the moment you include versioning you really do get a lot of people that dont know how to find the version. this will alienate some people, but its worth considering, just realize it has pros and cons
    add a special event box -- i would suggest avery simple boolean yes/no check box. either you used some sort of special event or you didnt. This because a lot easier for the lay person to verify without having to learn of every single special event out there and the right names of each. is there some unfairness with grouping different special events together? probably, i'm sure some special events help more than others. too bad, if you dont like it submit a non-special event one when the time comes. the moment you submit for special event you accept walking in you're dealing with a tough case to track and you get thrown in with all the other special events.

    also, all these changes would have to apply to new tracks. If the track creator wants all these things merged, thats his/her choice. The track creator in this case did not want these things separated. We dont adjudicate tracks, we adjudicate scores. We have to the track creators create what they want.
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    @Barthax This is interesting - these games allow people to play older versions, or not download a patch? This being the case then these games allow players to compete on our level field. Other games which require an Internet connection can 'force' a player to update the game in order to be able to keep playing, so you have no way to play the older version. Do I have this correct?
    @Snowflake The checkbox idea could help but with game versions the date of the score must be known as well as the submission date. The version of the game could then easily be tied to the date. Proving the date the score was set should be fairly easy to do during a submission unless I'm missing something?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    @Barthax This is interesting - these games allow people to play older versions, or not download a patch? This being the case then these games allow players to compete on our level field. Other games which require an Internet connection can 'force' a player to update the game in order to be able to keep playing, so you have no way to play the older version. Do I have this correct?
    They don't have the same dev-driven bonuses as Candy Crush so older versions can still be played by not upgrading. For Android, there's always the option of downloading older versions from one of the many third-party APK sources too.

    Are you on my radar?
    I'd rather be last on every game than throw my time away chasing only one score.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    @Barthax This is interesting - these games allow people to play older versions, or not download a patch? This being the case then these games allow players to compete on our level field. Other games which require an Internet connection can 'force' a player to update the game in order to be able to keep playing, so you have no way to play the older version. Do I have this correct?
    @Snowflake The checkbox idea could help but with game versions the date of the score must be known as well as the submission date. The version of the game could then easily be tied to the date. Proving the date the score was set should be fairly easy to do during a submission unless I'm missing something?
    I believe whats difficult about the date of accomplishment as opposed to date of submission, is while yes, thats fairly easy for people to submit, is it as easy for adjudicators to verify? I'm not sure how someone could convince me when they did something. Almost anything they have to show the date could be pretty easily faked i would think.
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  8. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    How about footage showing the version number on screen, similar to how people show their hardware? Finding out dates corresponding to the lifespan of any version should be easy.
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    It is possible that the reward for a Star Chaser event was active, but not certain. There is no evidence a booster was used.

    We are discussing adding game version information to the database in order to manage games with updates better.

    In the meantime this score needs to stand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    It is possible that the reward for a Star Chaser event was active, but not certain. There is no evidence a booster was used.
    On the contrary, the fact that a Colour Bomb is there, right at the start of this submission's game, is irrefutable evidence that a "booster" was utilised. Inadvertently? Maybe. But, that doesn't matter.

    The rules now say, "Items that appear during the game as a result of gameplay are not counted as boosters, in order to prevent gameplay tactics being hindered."

    The Colour Bomb, seen before any gameplay has begun, is a "booster", put into the game by some method not discernible within the submission's evidence. The method's existence is nevertheless proven by the clarity of its result, the not "special candy" Colour Bomb "booster".

    The hilarious thing is that, if this track's author had simply followed my suggestion to allow the default "booster" (which is the Colour Bomb), this dispute would not even have been necessary.

    And, even after this dispute forced somebody to do something about the inadequate rules, said rules still do not address the fact that Colour Bombs can be put into the game, before play starts.

    Although this ended up being a monumental waste of time, effort & opportunity, this dispute will remain here as proof that at least some attempt was made to clean up the mess made by all these ill conceived Candy Crush tracks.

    And it is a mess, make no mistake. If you really think it's all been cleared up, I dare you to go vote 'yes' on the one & only Candy crush submission left in the queue.
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