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Dispute: Marc Cohen - Sega Genesis / Sega Mega Drive - Pac-Mania - NTSC - Points - Player: Ron Corcoran - Score: 4,451,480

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    People have put in a lot of effort so far on this one. As always it is noted and appreciated. A typo seems very likely considering that, without the extra '4', the score would look to be in the right ball-park range.

    There is not (yet) enough evidence here to be 100% certain the score is wrong. This dispute has to be rejected for now but remember this means it will stay open indefinitely to allow more time for evidence to gather. Across all disputes TG members have been running experiments, analysing code, taking machines apart, and providing insight into who adjudicated what and when, and by what rules. All this research is being carried out by people voluntarily and during their own time. Facts are slowly coming to the surface.

    So despite this being the age of the Internet and instant gratification, this dispute needs more time. Keep it coming folks.
  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    People have put in a lot of effort so far on this one. As always it is noted and appreciated. A typo seems very likely considering that, without the extra '4', the score would look to be in the right ball-park range.
    You say here that the extra 4 makes this score invalid but you are still keeping the score???
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  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,348
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    Quote Originally Posted by gstrain View Post
    Please note that per discussion here http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...l=1#post914130 the player in question on this dispute is a former TG referee and member of the TG board who had full access to the TG database and who is currently serving a 30 year prison sentence in Arizona for crimes of moral turpitude. I have to agree with RTM's comments on that thread that we should consider removing all of Ron's scores from the TG database, or at the very least those without definitive evidence that they had full video evidence reviewed by another referee and the score was entered by another referee.
    Agree 100%. Yes vote from me. Ron's scores should be gone in order to help improve the integrity of the console leaderboards.
  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,386
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    Quote Originally Posted by gstrain View Post
    Please note that per discussion here http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...l=1#post914130 the player in question on this dispute is a former TG referee and member of the TG board who had full access to the TG database and who is currently serving a 30 year prison sentence in Arizona for crimes of moral turpitude. I have to agree with RTM's comments on that thread that we should consider removing all of Ron's scores from the TG database, or at the very least those without definitive evidence that they had full video evidence reviewed by another referee and the score was entered by another referee.
    I don't care that he was arrested. I don't even care why (as it pertains to TG). But at this amount of collusion and bad scores I think all of his scores should be removed. I don't think it should be the burden of the many to prove each and every score is bad, I think at this level it becomes a case where scores need to be proved that they belong.
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  5. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,348
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    I don't believe that the "typo" excuse holds any water. This former ref/former TG staff member showed a history of abuse to the system. He also acted in a way that put other gamers personal property, score submissions, world record attempts, etc into the junk pile. His history of neglectful, nefarious, and criminal behavior is such that he should not be given the benefit of the doubt regarding a "typo". In addition, it was within his power at the time to correct any potential "typos."

    If improving integrity of the leaderboards is the goal, then a dispute such as this should not require break down of code, etc.
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  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,348
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post

    Now on this note this is a perfect example of why ALL pre-TGSAP scores need to be archived and only the scores that actually are part of the new (and I would say much improved) system are considered "premium". Leave all the others for legacy purposes because even if this score claim was for example 999 999,999 points it wont matter because "Well its POSSIBLE you know". This is the really the only way in my opinion to make this scoreboard seem 100% correct/legit now and while a lot of real scores may get archived its really the only way to ensure its integrity going forward.
    I am coming around to this line of thinking. Maybe these pre TGSAP "scores" should be archived and seen as "non premium". Not the tracks, but the scores. "Premium" scores require premium evidence.

    But for this dispute, I stick to a Yes vote with the additional recommendation of striking all of Ron's scores.
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  7. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 14,120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hawksett View Post
    People have put in a lot of effort so far on this one. As always it is noted and appreciated. A typo seems very likely considering that, without the extra '4', the score would look to be in the right ball-park range.

    There is not (yet) enough evidence here to be 100% certain the score is wrong.
    I will ask again then...Exactly what more can I possibly provide to show 100% proof a 4.4 million score is impossible?

    So far, all I learned is that Emulators and/or Game Genie skip a level shortcuts/cheat codes examples simply manipulates the game after a round 19 ending, and is just not the same, playing the game under normal conditions. Those that know Genesis/Pac-Mania inside and out, and have the experience with the game itself, already know this to be true.

    If you say there is not enough "yes votes" or "voting interest" to support my clear and concise evidence, then so be it, as I will continue to be more than patient, as I already have. But I assure you, I still wont lose any sleep over this or any other of Corcoran's bogus scores of his.
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  8. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 6,503
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    Have to say this....and it's going to sound terrible. Trust me, I do not like saying this. No matter how terrible a human being is, it still does not change what they have achieved in life, or in this case, video game scores. I don't agree with this path of removing all scores of Ron's. Believe me, it's sucks that some/most of his scores may be false, but he may still have legit scores. Like it or not, they should be honored. Again, this really sucks to admit but it's a fact. His crimes outside of the video game industry shouldn't be used against him. That's not how it works in a court room, it should be that way here. Each score is a different case.

    Now, if any of you can find evidence proving he has indeed cheated, that then falls under the "all scores removed and a lifetime ban"....don't really need the later punishment due to his incarceration. I believe this for all scores and players. Sucks we might have to dispute ever single one of them, but at least we can say we did it right. Instead of dropping the axe and cutting them all out.

    Yes, I'm going to go shower after writing this. If what most of you claim about the integrity of the leaderboards to be your true feelings, you know what I have said is the right way to handle this matter until evidence shows he purposefully cheated. Otherwise, we must do each score one by one. SOOOOOOOOOOO DIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTYYYYYYYYYY!
  9. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 14,120
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post

    Now, if any of you can find evidence proving he has indeed cheated, that then falls under the "all scores removed and a lifetime ban"... Sucks we might have to dispute ever single one of them, but at least we can say we did it right.
    Thats interesting, I thought I already proved this via video. Whether he outright cheated or made a simple typo, I do not know what his mindset was. But, either way its an impossible score.

    Disputing every single one of his scores is no problem for me, I assure you. I have at least a dozen or so of his on my bogus list with pure evidence. But why waste my time "doing it right" again?

    Apparently, the admin has drawn his own conclusion here that if a coconut is laying on the ground and there is only one coconut tree directly above it, it didnt come from that tree. Someone must of picked it up from a mile away, and purposely place it there!
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  10. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,348
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    Ive said repeatedly, and will say again here, that Ron's action as as a Twin Galaxies ref and employee are more than enough to remove his scores. His behavior impacted the scoreboard as well has hundreds of submissions.

    - Mishandled submission property causing hundreds of submissions to be lost.
    - Self entered incorrect / falsified scores and did nothing to fix them.
    - Colluded with other ref to bolster his own standings

    So for me, his actions fall under the category of "all scores removed and lifetime ban."

    His actions in his personal life just demonstrate that he is a terrible person and should not be given the "benefit of the doubt" regarding honest behavior.



    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185 View Post
    Have to say this....and it's going to sound terrible. Trust me, I do not like saying this. No matter how terrible a human being is, it still does not change what they have achieved in life, or in this case, video game scores. I don't agree with this path of removing all scores of Ron's. Believe me, it's sucks that some/most of his scores may be false, but he may still have legit scores. Like it or not, they should be honored. Again, this really sucks to admit but it's a fact. His crimes outside of the video game industry shouldn't be used against him. That's not how it works in a court room, it should be that way here. Each score is a different case.

    Now, if any of you can find evidence proving he has indeed cheated, that then falls under the "all scores removed and a lifetime ban"....don't really need the later punishment due to his incarceration. I believe this for all scores and players. Sucks we might have to dispute ever single one of them, but at least we can say we did it right. Instead of dropping the axe and cutting them all out.

    Yes, I'm going to go shower after writing this. If what most of you claim about the integrity of the leaderboards to be your true feelings, you know what I have said is the right way to handle this matter until evidence shows he purposefully cheated. Otherwise, we must do each score one by one. SOOOOOOOOOOO DIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTYYYYYYYYYY!
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