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Dispute: Dick Moreland - Atari 2600 / VCS - Dragster - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 05.51

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,388


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    Quote Originally Posted by So_Unclear View Post
    Sorry didn't mean evidence, but validation from their own publication.

    Like I said before a simple google search can find this.

    This is good enough for me.

    I will leave you all with this from the article above.

    “Activision validated Todd’s Dragster score using the accepted methods of the day,” Crane said. “The time to question any of those records has passed.”


    Attachment 35863
    Good luck in your venture. I have submitted my vote.
    Good day.
    Thanks I've seen all that. I've done an immense amount of reading on this which is available from a "simple google search". I was assuming the evidence was the photo itself that was submitted and not a copy of the newsletter and the three 5.51 scores they posted. Again did you miss the part I mentioned in the article you linked that Todd himself said those other two scores were invalidated?

    Given your statements about things being changed in the spreadsheet we do need more folks to look at the source code certainly. Perhaps Omni has indeed made an error and more people looking at this would be better than just one person. Hopefully this can be authorized to be released by Activision and Mr Crane (or whoever has the rights to do so) now that is 2017 and 35 years later?
    Dan Desjardins
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post
    John I really dont understand what no one getting the 5.57 means?
    Dan, if all those top verified scores were 5.57 then the human player facts would align with the TAS analysis.

    So one of three things is happening here...

    1.....the human players have maxed out the time?

    2.....the TAS analysis is wrong?

    3.....if you believe the TAS analysis, then the human players haven't tried long or hard enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes
    5.57 on this game is definitely possible as proven by a TAS run.
    That will only be proven when someone gets a 5.57.



    john

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  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,388


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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark View Post
    Dan, if all those top verified scores were 5.57 then the human player facts would align with the TAS analysis.

    So one of three things is happening here...

    1.....the human players have maxed out the time?

    2.....the TAS analysis is wrong?

    3.....if you believe the TAS analysis, then the human players haven't tried long or hard enough!



    That will only be proven when someone gets a 5.57.



    john

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    John I'm not understand this from you? Do you understand what a TAS is or how TAS's work. They are generally frame perfect inputs done by a computer. People generally "beat" them only with glitches or discovering some new way to play a game. Omni really needs to explain the details on this he can do it much better and I wont be getting something wrong. I will say this tho The TAS for Super Mario Bros will almost certainly NEVER be matched by a person and that game has SEVERAL top players actively doing Speedrun attempts all the time ?so what exactly does that mean? "they havent tried long or hard enough?"
    Dan Desjardins
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 23,062
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234
    I will say this tho The TAS for Super Mario Bros will almost certainly NEVER be matched by a person and that game has SEVERAL top players actively doing Speedrun attempts all the time ?so what exactly does that mean? "they havent tried long or hard enough?"
    Dan, as I said, Omnigamer has already concluded that 5.57 is possible, so once again if you believe his analysis to be correct then yes I stand by what I said.
    It's all about the timing of your inputs, Dan. Like getting a 30M ZK jump.



    john

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  5. VERIFIED Junior Member Credibility: 1,000
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    The video game world never ceases to amaze me. Todd Rogers, one of the most successful, talented and respected video game players of all time. If you are going to call out Todd for a lack of video evidence, you might as well dispute every single score that also has no video evidence. I read through all of the omnigamer's analysis...all well and good however it means very little since it fails to take two things into account: human input and the hardware. Not to mention most of you are making a *huge* assumption that the code was correctly reverse engineered in the first place. I sincerely hope Todd duplicates his Dragster world record score and when he does, all of you will owe him a huge apology.
    Thanks CONSOLEPLAYEROFTHECENTURY thanked this post
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  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 6,845
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    I think i'm seeing a communication breakdown here. Lexmark is actually making a good point, but I think people are missing what he's debunking.

    I've look at all the "score is fake" arguments, and they're all just variations on a theme of 10 basic arguments. The weakest of the arguments is noone else has done it so it must not be possible. Even proponents of this argument recognize its not universally true, since obviously any first place score has only been done by one person, but reasons are giving why for dragster in particular this score would've done by more than one person if possible. By showing a possible score that noone has reached it demonstrates even in the case of dragster in particular this argument is flawed. RTM tried to dismiss this argument with an analogy to night driver but the analogy didnt hold up mainly because in night driver noone was trying for a better score. Lexmark though has pointed out that even in dragster in particular people cant get a real score despite trying.

    This of course only destroys the weakest of the 10 arguments. There are still 9 other arguments to contend with. This argument was so weak to begin with I think some people forget it was ever in made and so didnt see the significance in debunking it.
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    Held off commenting on this, and abstaining, though I have strong beliefs.
    The computer says he can't do it. Period.
    Anyone disputing his score has a strong leg to stand on, and no chance of egg on their faces, because the scientific facts say it isn't possible.
    But I believe in the human element.

    I have beaten Todd myself now, several times. Every time I do, it is a special charge-not to put him down, but because he is that darned good. If I beat his score, I have truly done something.

    Agreed, Tessler1134 , I honestly hope and believe he can do it again.

    I hope you aren't fooling, Todd.
    If you pull this off, it may be the biggest thing you have ever done. You know that. You've seen the oohtube videos.
    Do it right, Man. In 2017 Twin Galaxies, you can turn a lot of foes into friends through your performance.
    Spider-sense tells me you can do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco View Post
    Held off commenting on this, and abstaining, though I have strong beliefs.
    The computer says he can't do it. Period.
    dont be fooled by a weak engineer with an agenda

    the computer does not say he can't do it

    that omni dudes code claims that it couldnt be done but when he put his data out there someone showed it could be done and then that omni guy changed his assumptions to make it once again look like it cant be done.

    that so-clear guy talkd bout it here
    http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...l=1#post914021

    so far ill i see are people with agendas putting opinions out there & when they get called out they change their story
    if rogers does it again all these people saying that it didnt happen are going to be remembred in this thread
    -the truth is important
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  9. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 23,062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes
    I thought it was important for Omnigamer to post the dispute - no one is more qualified to explain the evidence or has a more thorough understanding than him.
    All he has to do is get VERIFIED. Worked for Brian King. Post away as much as he (Omni) likes.

    Or am I missing something?



    john

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    I wonder how many hours GregDeg spent on this game to get his 5.61?

    Not many I'll bet?


    john

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