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Dispute: Dick Moreland - Atari 2600 / VCS - Dragster - NTSC - Game 1, Difficulty B [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 05.51

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    [snip]

    After he did everything he did, and looked at everything here, and even talked to you, I asked him what his personal opinion was. I asked him if I should make a decision at this point, and he specifically and explicitly said that I should hold off on a decision pending more testing.
    Again, to quote your exchange for full context:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall
    Very interesting!

    From your perspective, what would be logical next steps?
    Unless you tell me otherwise, I still can't reasonably conclude the impossibility of a 5.51 time yet.
    So it boils down to Ben telling you whether or not 5.51 is impossible. No pressure on someone who has never carried themselves as the code expert on Dragster.

    This is what interested Ben in Dragster, according to his own blog:

    "When Jace reached out to Ben, Ben was not much interested in the speed record. However, Ben was fascinated by the idea of using new hardware to analyze the RAM of the 2600 – to copy the data being sent to the RAM from the CPU."

    He did build you a RAM analyzer, and confirmed that the instructions going from the ROM to RAM are not altered or corrupted in any way, ruling out some sort of instruction glitch that would merit more investigation as a possible explanation for a 5.51. That's pretty significant.

    He also confirmed that Omni's spreadsheet inputs are accurate on real hardware.

    He also said that if someone couldn't hit time with his rig, then it probably isn't possible.

    I wonder how the discussion would have unfolded you had asked:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall
    Very interesting!

    From your perspective, what would be logical next steps?
    Unless you tell me otherwise, I can reasonably conclude the impossibility of a 5.51 time.
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  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 6,578
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    Quote Originally Posted by datagod View Post
    I hope you are not including TGSAP scores that have had their video evidence disappear. I don't think we need to have special "no evidence" tracks.
    Already brought this up in another thread as well a week ago. I think that any TGSAP score that has video evidence removed should be disputed just like any other score and not simply removed. When the video goes missing, they essentially become like one of these old scores. Lets not forget that unlike those old scores, we have an entire thread of peoples comments backing up the video evidence as to its validity at the time of adjudication. Also, the person could still have the video on a drive and simply re-upload the video or get it to TG via other means.

    Either way, if an accepted TGSAP video every goes missing, there is still evidence of it's existence by all the voters and comments left. Most people take screen captures of the score. If you ask me, if someone takes a few screen captures of their submission, all the comments are nothing but good comments and the score is accepted, I really don't know how a TGSAP score should be simply removed. It had video evidence witnessed by many people who voted on it, it's got screen captures of it's score, plus the comments. But yeah, simply removing the video makes it automatically a reject....because that makes a lot of god damn sense. Chewbacca anyone?

    This Dragster score has no video evidence, guess it should be removed. Oh, that's right, it was accepted and put into the database from a non related TG source by a ref who simply said, yep it's all good because Activision said so. OMG, that is exactly what happened. This whole TGSAP scores being removed because their evidence goes missing is a whole other fiasco, maybe some guy should start a thread about it. This is where you guys should click on my profile and go back and look at a few my wall posts.
  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 7,875
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    well navigating this thread on mobile is broken. Maybe it just me and my big fat clown thumbs, but due to the way pages work now clicking on the last page instead pulls up the page search. might i suggest further testing on programming changes here before further testing on dragster. and by further testing, i mean any testing any testing at all.

    You ignored my offer to be hired for a month to train basic programming to your team, I tell you what, I'll give 1 hour for free. Arrange a call and I'll teach your guy some of the basics of testing. That wont make things perfect but I'm telling you man its worth it, in just one hour I can at least teach the concept that you need to test on mobile and desktop. I can remind him not to add changes that downloads viruses onto peoples computer, see if you hired me you wouldnt have had to have to remove the viruses i wouldve instructed him to never add them in the first place. And yes, i can even give a very brief overview of regression testing.

    Testing is important, lets start by testing site changes so its not such a nightmare everytime one of us wants to log in after an update and try to contribute.

    Seriously all this talk of testing while doing zero testing on the site is a real slap in the face to your regular users. Can you care about us 1/100 as much as you care about todd's score. The site constantly breaking is driving me wild.
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 6,578
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    Man, I really feel like someone has been saying this for over two weeks now. About fixing what is already there before moving on. I believe the words where your on step 4 when the previous steps don't even work properly. Kind of hard to find the problems when the first things added have problems to begin with. Maybe it's just me, but efficiency is kind of a big deal in my life.

    Bill is right, test these things before putting them into full effect. Save TG resouces in the long run, saves us from having to ***** about all the problems. Anyway, how about that 5.51 on Dragster, huh!? Wouldn't believe if I hadn't....not seen it for myself.
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