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Dispute: John McAllister - Atari 2600 / VCS - Skiing - NTSC - Game 03, Difficulty BB [Fastest Time] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 27.51

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Is this a valid dispute?

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    Just so that I am clear, at what point are the difficult switches messed with? At the end when the skier jumps off to the side a bit?
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    It is at the end. In the video you can hear the switch being made.
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    The owners manual for Skiing can be found here: (https://atariage.com/manual_html_pag...areLabelID=434)

    I will include a screen shot photo as well.

    The owners manual mentions the A/B switch setting for the game. Nowhere does it state that these switches should be manipulated during gameplay to increase performance. (I'm not aware of any Atari manual that recommends doing this as part of normal gameplay.)

    So it would seem to me that this is a "glitch" that falls outside the parameters of standard gameplay. Exploiting a glitch for the purpose of boosting ones score is not allowed, to my knowledge.


    My guess is that this doesn't solve the problem. The dispute has demonstrated one way to achieve this score. It has not, beyond a reasonable doubt, eliminated all other possibilities in the known universe.

    1. The player may have special abilities that no other human has. (Human Element)
    2. The player may have unknowingly had a bad cartridge that no other human has.
    3. The player's machine could have glitched without him knowing in a way that has not happened to any other player.

    My hunch is that this one will remain open.


    As far as creating a new track, I disagree. Messing with A/B switches during gameplay is not standard practice for ANY Atari 2600 game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DadsGlasses View Post

    So it would seem to me that this is a "glitch" that falls outside the parameters of standard gameplay. Exploiting a glitch for the purpose of boosting ones score is not allowed, to my knowledge.

    As far as creating a new track, I disagree. Messing with A/B switches during gameplay is not standard practice for ANY Atari 2600 game.
    This last part you got correct.
    The first part, you didnt. It is not a "glitch", it is a "cheat". (AKA - cheating).

    By switching to "A" at the end of the run, you conveniently are "manipulating" your skier to move to the middle of the screen, where there are no obstacles. Therefore you avoid another pixel movement, thus finishing with achieving this time.

    You are going to hit a tree if you dont move your skier from "B". You must maneuver around it, and lose time.
    Yet again, another scenario where this has been proven over and over, time and time again, for years on TG forums, as well as on Atari Age.
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    I think we both got it right. I agree with you. The manipulation of difficulty switches during gameplay causes a glitch. That glitch helps improve a player's time. Knowingly using a glitch to manipulate a player's score is cheating.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade View Post
    This last part you got correct.
    The first part, you didnt. It is not a "glitch", it is a "cheat". (AKA - cheating).

    By switching to "A" at the end of the run, you conveniently are "manipulating" your skier to move to the middle of the screen, where there are no obstacles. Therefore you avoid another pixel movement, thus finishing with achieving this time.

    You are going to hit a tree if you dont move your skier from "B". You must maneuver around it, and lose time.
    Yet again, another scenario where this has been proven over and over, time and time again, for years on TG forums, as well as on Atari Age.
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    I am voting "Yes" on this dispute


    That said, I still don't believe that Twin Galaxies will see this as definitive reason to remove the score unless it can be proven that this is the method that Todd used. Do you know of any evidence that shows Todd admitting to using this tactic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DadsGlasses View Post


    That said, I still don't believe that Twin Galaxies will see this as definitive reason to remove the score unless it can be proven that this is the method that Todd used.
    It is the only method ! And there is video evidence even showing the only method!
    Again, those that know the game of 2600 - Skiing ,inside and out, with years of experience, and "experimenting", already know this to be true. A gaming manual wont tell you these answers.
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    Just to be clear, I am in agreement with you. I am voting YES. My research on the topic has yielded the same result as yours.

    Unfortunately the following questions seem to pop up when a Legacy score has no evidence package, so I am playing Devil's Advocate:

    1. Does the player have some special ability that no other human has or knows about? (human element)
    2. Does the player have a prototype cartridge that performs differently that no other human has or knows about?
    3. Did the player's console experience a glitch that the player didn't know about that no other player's console has ever experienced?
    4. Can you conclusively prove which method the player in question used to achieve his score? "Just because you don't know about an alternative method does not mean that method doesn't exist."


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade View Post
    It is the only method ! And there is video evidence even showing the only method!
    Again, those that know the game of 2600 - Skiing ,inside and out, with years of experience, and "experimenting", already know this to be true. A gaming manual wont tell you these answers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade View Post
    It is the only method ! And there is video evidence even showing the only method!
    Again, those that know the game of 2600 - Skiing ,inside and out, with years of experience, and "experimenting", already know this to be true. A gaming manual wont tell you these answers.
    My reason for showing the game's manual was to add evidence to your claim. Clearly manipulating game difficulty switches during gameplay is NOT intended by the manufacturer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DadsGlasses View Post
    My reason for showing the game's manual was to add evidence to your claim. Clearly manipulating game difficulty switches during gameplay is NOT intended by the manufacturer.
    Did you bother to read the title on the top of the dispute?
    This is not my claim, this is John McAllisters.
    I am simply supporting the claim, just like others have.

    The manufacturer (Activision) has nothing to do with this. It has been a TG standard from the beginning of time that flipping the A/B switches during gameplay is a "no-no".

    If you want to call that a "glitch", then be my guest.
    Because as far as I am concerned, the only "glitch" out there, is when referees were enabled to self-verify/enter their own scores into the database.
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