Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Defender - Points [Tournament Settings] - Player: Bill Jones - Score: 543,950

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  1. Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Defender - Points [Tournament Settings] - Player: Bill Jones - Score: 543,950

    08-17-2017, 05:06 PM
    Arcade - Defender - Points [Tournament Settings]
    Score Track//
    RulesFunction #'s of Importance

    8 Bonus Ship Level = 0
    9 Ships Per Game = 5
    17 Free Play = 0
    18 Starting Difficulty = 5 Moderate
    19 Progressive Wave Difficulty Limit = 15 Moderate
    21 Planet Restore Wave Number = 5
    Special Notes: These are Twin Galaxies Tournament Settings
    Player NameBill Jones
    Original AdjudicationN/A
    Verification MethodVideo
    Verification Date2008-09-19
    Disputed Score543,950 (Rank 1)
    Disputed Byredelf
    Dispute Evidence / RationaleThis score was done using a leeching technique which is banned. He would stay on the same level and just shoot baiters over and over again. I propose that this score be moved to a track that allows baiter hunting or leeching.

    Does anyone have info on the 2nd place score. I believe he also used baiter hunting.
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  2. 08-17-2017, 06:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by redelf View Post
    This score was done using a leeching technique which is banned. He would stay on the same level and just shoot baiters over and over again.
    How do we know this?
  3. 08-18-2017, 04:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Blastaar View Post
    How do we know this?
    Bump. I've heard this too, but a source should be cited for the information if we're going to use it to dispute the score, no?
  4. 08-18-2017, 04:48 PM
    What proof do you have for the supposed leeching?
    Craig Rout Gallant

    Current verified TG WRs: 58

    My Youtube channel: //
    MAME World Records channel: //
  5. 08-18-2017, 05:57 PM

    Stephen Boyer,

    You were reportedly the referee that verified the videos for Bill Jones' Stargate and Defender records in 2008.

    Can you comment on whether Baiter-hunting was employed?

    Do you know where the videos would be now?
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  6. 08-19-2017, 11:34 AM
    Same as the Stargate dispute, this should be split into two tracks.
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  7. 08-19-2017, 12:20 PM
    To those recommending separate tracks for Arcade Defender, some of our peers have already taken the liberty to do so for both variations:

    1) (TGTS No Baiter Hunting)
    2) (Marathon, No "10 man drop", no cumulative scoring)

    Now, neither of these have been made premium, and so are not worthy of Guinness recognition. For more on this, see this discussion started in April 2017: // (as stated here, members may write to TG for member created tracks to be made premium, otherwise, a minimum of ten scores must be achieved on any given score board track for that to happen)

    My best streamed game of Centipede: (786k, clean, no cussing for those who may be concerned)

    Nothing should be enough for people to vote world records or other records. Completely insane practise. -Janutzska

    I guess it's about trying to live a life where I'm not contributing to the cruelty in the world... While I am on this planet, I want everyone I meet to know that I am grateful they are here. - Jessica Chastain
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  8. 08-24-2017, 07:33 AM
    So, I see this dispute, but i don't see what the process is?
  9. 08-25-2017, 08:16 AM
    Technically, ’Baiter Hunting’ is not a banned technique, as it was never discussed openly on the forums. And the reason for that was – of course– that no one (except Bill Jones and some of the judges) was aware this leeching technique existed. And the judges were under oath not to discuss the gameplay. And so competition on this track was killed.
    Several years later, the possibility of ’Baiter Hunting’ came up in our fb group (dedicated to Williams’ video games), and eventually Stephen Boyer decided it was time to confirm those supicions.
    There’s no question Baiter Hunting is a leeching technique, and would in all likelihood have been banned if discussed openly on the forums.
    Personally, I would like to separate Bill Jones Baiter Hunting score from the others, creating a track where Baiter Hunting is allowed. Anyone up for it – feel free to kill baiters for a few hours. (Not an easy feat, to be sure, but as the score shows: way easier than doing it ’straight up’).

    Enter the next problem:
    As was pointed out by Bill Jones himself in that WR announcement back in 2008, the 80’s scores seem to have been done using only 3 ships, whereas the modern day scores use 5 ships. Bill Jones refers to documentation he has.
    Here’s that thread. (It was picked up again in 2014 by Mark Hoff (1500pts), and I seized the opportunity to put forth this problem):

    This track is so utterly messy it needs to be split up in 3 different tracks: a 3-ship classic track; a 5-ship modern era track, NO BH; a 5-ship modern era track, BH.
    (Loose the newly created No Baiter Hunting track, as it allows ”any official romset on default settings”. It should be Red ROMs only).

    DEFENDER TGTS (Arcade):

    1. 543.950 (108K/ship) Bill Jones Aug 15 2008 (Video) – 5 ships – BaiterHunting

    2. 472.150 (94K/ship) George M Barton Sep 17 2009 (Referee) – 5 ships - ?

    3. 264.450 (52K/ship) John P McAllister Dec 31 2008 (DVD) – 5 ships – ”Straight Up”

    4. 230.125 (76K/ship) Gino Yoo Jun 30 1985 (Referee) – 3 ships - ?

    5. 184.025 (61K/ship) Shane Ducharme Jun 30 1985 (Referee) – 3 ships - ?

    6. 175.100 (58K/ship) Mike Munoz Jun 30 1984 (Referee) – 3 ships - ?
    DEFENDER: 999.975 pts (Blue Roms / max difficulty: 99-99 / Bonus ship level: 10K)
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  10. 08-25-2017, 08:31 AM
    For reference here is how a 30 year vet and Extreme Master plays tournament settings Defender straight up and flat out.
    I believe when Simon was dabbling in this format of play, he has done better but it wasn't recorded.
    Are you inspired to find the joy in gaming?

    TG employee (82-84)
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