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Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Stargate - Points [Tournament] - Player: Bill Jones - Score: 284,975

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
    At the time I received this video I totally asked the upper or peer referees first before accepting the submission as it did seem like leeching but there was such a debate at the time, on the forums and in house and they all said it was legit and should be accepted. However, a bit later I've pretty much felt the same way you guys feel that it should not be totally removed but just moved over to a acceptable leeching / baiter hunting track. Even for a leeching track it's a decent score to shoot for, right?
    I think you're confusing this with the monstrous Defender score? I've never seen Bill Jones' Stargate record being up for debate before. The Stargate score isn't as out-of-the-ballpark good as the Defender score. In fact, it was beaten in MAME by Darren M Oliver in 2011. Even though he - like Bill Jones - chose to hide his game, he has more or less said it was done with massive point pressing waves 1-9.
    If you're challenging Bill Jones' Stargate score, you must challenge Darren M Oliver's too.
    DEFENDER: 999.975 pts (Blue Roms / max difficulty: 99-99 / Bonus ship level: 10K)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOS View Post
    I think you're confusing this with the monstrous Defender score? I've never seen Bill Jones' Stargate record being up for debate before. The Stargate score isn't as out-of-the-ballpark good as the Defender score. In fact, it was beaten in MAME by Darren M Oliver in 2011. Even though he - like Bill Jones - chose to hide his game, he has more or less said it was done with massive point pressing waves 1-9.
    If you're challenging Bill Jones' Stargate score, you must challenge Darren M Oliver's too.
    No, I know exactly which score this is about. I received both scores at the same time. I'm only giving out facts here and not challenging any scores. Just trying to do the right thing and help these scores get moved into the correct place. Years ago it was looked down upon to add more variations as it sort of watered down the gaming track and it's one reason this score was either accepted or rejected. There was no leeching track. That is all gone now as tons of new variations have been added for lots of different games.
    Stephen K. Boyer
    Former Twin Galaxies Sr. Referee
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Mario Bros. 2-Player Team: 1,517,380 ( Arcade Medium World Record )
    Mario Bros. 2-Player Team: 788,970 ( Arcade Medium NO POW World Record )
    Mario Bros. Single Player MEDIUM 4,260,210 ( MAME World Record )
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    OK - very interesting.

    Never tried 'Baiter Hunting' on Stargate, and, apparently, it's not as effective in Stargate, as it's on par with Darren M Olivers score.

    But 'Baiter Hunting' isn't a banned technique - it was never up for discussion. But had it been discussed with the players, I'm pretty sure it would've been deemed leeching. It's sad: the former option to hide your video, and any discussion of strategies used in it, killed the Defender TGTS track.

    But no one's mentioning the real elephant in the room: the 80's scores were done using only 3 ships ...
    DEFENDER: 999.975 pts (Blue Roms / max difficulty: 99-99 / Bonus ship level: 10K)
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    "Baiter Hunting" , although challenging, should not be allowed because...unlike hunting in "Arkanoid" which is allowed...a tactic exists whereby the difficulty in doing the hunting peaks easily and is not all that difficult once employed.

    It's good to keep track of in a separate variation for sake of competition, but should not be co-mingled with the other TGTS scores.

    On a related note, it would be nice if all the "Asteroids" scores and the associated rules explicitly stated that asteroid hunting was allowed and further, that a separate variation which (as per the old "Weehawk" MARP challenge) limits ship hunting to five (5) per stage.
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    John McAllister Has Highest Score on Stargate

    Overall Top Players on Arcade & MAME Stargate Scores
    1st 312,150 100% John P McAllister 2010-10-20 INP 106
    2nd 286,100 90.00% Daren M Oliver 2011-10-23 INP 106 [Undisputed]
    3rd 194,200 68.15% Scott Heyano 1985-06-30 Referee [Undisputed]
    4th 173,625 60.93% Eric Liddell 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    4th 129,675 45.33% Bill Richards 2005-02-08 INP N/A [Undisputed]

    Arcade Stargate Tounament
    Extra Ship Every: 0 No Extra Ships
    Ships for 1 Credit Game: 5
    Ships for 2 Credit Game: 7
    Free Play: No
    Master Difficulty Control: 3
    Intial Difficulty: 5 Moderate
    Maximum Difficulty: 30 Moderate
    1st Wave of Accelerated Difficulty: 0
    Last Wave of Accelerated Difficulty: 0
    Difficulty Acceleration Rate: 0 Moderate
    Inviso Time Per Ship: 10
    Men Needed To Warp: 4
    Last Wave Warp Allowed: 10


    Rank Points Percent Player Date Verified Verification Method Status

    1 284,975 100.00% Bill Jones 2008-09-14 DVD [View Dispute]
    2 194,200 68.15% Scott Heyano 1985-06-30 Referee [Undisputed]
    3 173,625 60.93% Eric Liddell 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    4 65,575 23.01% Brien King 2001-05-13 Referee [Undisputed]
    5 61,250 21.49% Donald Hayes 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    6 58,600 20.56% David Nelson 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    8 39,675 13.92% Jason Cram 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    9 38,450 13.49% Derek Fonda 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    10 35,500 12.46% Anthony Perrella 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    11 32,475 11.40% Mark Schulz 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    12 30,250 10.61% Shawn Cram 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    13 30,050 10.54% Bryan Wagner 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    14 24,550 8.61% Rick Vinas 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    15 19,375 6.80% Jeff Notaro 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    16 16,900 5.93% Tom Gass 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    17 8,100 2.84% Joel Hedge 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    18 6,475 2.27% David Archey 2008-05-31 Referee [Undisputed]
    19 3,050 1.07% James Bergtian 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]
    20 2,225 0.78% Robert Leaf 2004-03-21 Referee [Undisputed]

    MAME Stargate
    ROMSet: StarGateInternal Settings
    -----------------Extra Ship: 0 No Extra Ships
    Ships For 1 Credit Game: 5
    Ships For 2 Credit Game: 7
    Free Play: No
    Master Difficulty Control: 3
    Initial Difficulty: 5 Moderate
    Maximum Difficulty: 30 Moderate
    1st Wave Of Accelerated Difficulty: 0
    Last Wave Of Accelerated Difficulty: 0
    Difficulty Acceleration Rate: 0 Moderate
    Inviso Time Per Ship: 10 Recommended
    Men Needed To Warp: 4 Recommended
    Last Wave Warp Allowed: 10 Recommended
    Special Rules: None


    Rank Points Percent Player Date Verified Verification Method WolfMame Version Status
    1st 312,150 100% John P McAllister 2010-10-20 INP 106
    2nd 286,100 90.00% Daren M Oliver 2011-10-23 INP 106 [Undisputed]
    3rd 131,125 45.83% Eric Liddell 2009-11-09 INP 106 [Undisputed]
    4th 129,675 45.33% Bill Richards 2005-02-08 INP N/A [Undisputed]
    5th 84,675 29.60% William Womack 2005-02-08 INP N/A [Undisputed]
    6th 83,025 29.02% Chris Moore 2005-02-08 INP N/A [Undisputed]
    7th 45,875 16.03% Daniel Buchanan 2005-02-08 INP N/A

    MAME Marathon
    Rank Points Percent Player Date Verified Verification Method WolfMame Version Status
    1 10,944,875 100.00% Eric Liddell 2011-10-18 INP 106 [Undisputed]
    2 312,150 2.85% John P McAllister 2010-10-20 INP 106
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    if baiter hunting used to be allowed on this track, then how do we know who else baiter hunted? Instead of moving people off this track, wouldnt it make more sense to explicilty put in the rules that baiter hunting was allowed and just have a different track the outlaws it? In fact, I'm pretty sure someone already made a track that outlaws baiter hunting.
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