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Dispute: Matthew Felix - Game Boy Advance - The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap - Fastest Completion - Player: Michael B Damiani - Score: 02:46:32.0

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  1. VERIFIED COMMISSIONER Credibility: 8,000
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    @Tompa Your efforts in this dispute are appreciated. Do you have any more detail on the other scores you list which were disqualified by other sites?
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    After I brought it up to people's attention that his A Link to the Past run was spliced, more runs of his were checked which led to the creation of this topic at SpeedDemosArchive which also has TSA explaining the situation: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/..._the_site.html


    The Ocarina of Time splice clip I posted came from his 5:25 run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoPMvn4gHV4
    That splice happens at 4:10:46. Though that is not the only splice in the run... After you have used a Save & Quit, the next time you play the game, the start menu will always take you to the map screen. So any time in the run when the start menu goes to the map screen, you know that it was spliced. The very first pause, at 5:17, you see the Map Screen. This is correct. Though his next pause, at 11:00 the map screen is shown, which it shouldn't have had unless the game was restarted at any time inbetween. This occurs multiple times in the run.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmErDiBQDdQ
    Here's the full video of his 5:04 OoT run. The same kind splice as I linked before happens at 3:25:10. It is also shown to be spliced after collecting the Slingshot, as the pause at 7:25 puts up the map. For a comparision. In his 4:57 run, the pause after the slingshot at 10:00 shows his inventory, which it is supposed to do:
    https://youtu.be/uXEbvsk8sU0

    This specific run might be legit, as I don't think people have spotted any obvious splicing locations at least.

    Here is his most recent ALttP run:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfdQKCvaCN0

    All enemies who drop an item do so in a specific order, which you can see here: https://imgur.com/a/FOO65 If you would kill four guards in Prize Pack 0, the 5th guard will always drop a heart. All these packs are tracked seperately, so it doesn't matter how many enemies you have killed in a different pack. A game restart sequence will reset the order on all of them.
    In the run, he kills 7 that drop items in Prize Pack 0. First being at 9:17, dropping a Blue Rupee. Then at 9:53, Green Rupee. 10:25, Blue Rupee. Four enemies at 11:04: Red, Blue, Green, Blue. 7 enemies in total, so by following the Prize Pack, the next two will both drop a Blue Rupee.
    However, the next time enemies from that Prize Pack are killed is at 15:50. Were one of them drops a blue rupee, but the next one drops a Green Rupee, which it cannot have had. Proven that a game restart has been done somewhere between 11:04 and 15:50.
    There are most certainly more of these you can find.

    His Link's Awakening DX run was found spliced in a similar fashion. Run here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXEbvsk8sU0

    If you kill a certain emount of enemies, you'll eventually get a Guardian Acorn or a Piece of Power dropped from them. Explanations on both of these can be found http://zeldaspeedruns.com/la/general...uardian-acorns and http://zeldaspeedruns.com/la/general...ieces-of-power as well as in video form at https://www.speedrun.com/ladx/guide/q2wg8
    I can't remember right now where this is inconsistent in the run, but I could probably have a look later on...


    Similar method in The Legend of Zelda, where I don't have access to a video at the moment, but I can possibly do some digging to find one. Here's an explanation on how item drops work if anyone finds a run and wants to investigate http://redcandle.us/The_Legend_of_Zelda#Drops

    The video about the segmented The Wind Waker run does a good job already to explain how and why it is spliced, so no need for me to fill in on details.

    And as mentioned: All of these runs are not listed on TG, so it may be that there could be legit ones here. It's hard to verify though, because... you know... lack of evidence...

    Just ask if I should fill in with more details on stuff!
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    Remove all of his scores as they cannot be trusted!!
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,000
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    Oops, I noticed that I messed up with the link to the LADX run. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oUWLOYXtQs
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    @Tompa What is your opinion on TSA's statement on the link you posted in which he offers an explanation?


    https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/..._the_site.html
  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,000
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    As he stated, he was unable to record all in one sitting, so he had to make it in parts. This is an understandable reason to why his longer runs were made like this. But because of that reason, and if you had to change DVD/VHS because it was full, the rules on SDA stated that you then should pause the game, make the switch, continue the recording on the pause menu for awhile and then continue the gameplay. But this TSA didn't. The same explanation has also been used by other runners, most recently for ExoSDA who was found that he spliced a well-known Super Meat Boy run, a discovery that's about a week old.

    I don't really have too much to say about TSA's explanation than what I already made in that topic:

    "The thing is, TSA, when you are unable to record everything in one go, if you need to change DVD, VHS or whatever, you simply pause the game and then continue the recording. What were your reasons to redo from scratch up to the point you left off and then continue recording? That's the real issue here."

    It also doesn't explain why he needed to do this for his shorter runs, like TLoZ, or the already segmented run of The Wind Waker.

    He also linked to the his comments on the 5:25 run, which he also quoted in the SDA topic. Here in an archieved link: https://web.archive.org/web/20100601...s/ZeldaOoT_525

    Stating: "Anyway, let's get some stuff out of the way. There is discontinuity in this run that probably nobody would notice, and even though it has zero effect on gameplay or time, I felt the need to still mention it. I "magically" have the Deku Nut icon in my sub menu somewhere through the run, but it reads as zero. How did I get them, and how did I dispose of them? I start/stop record my runs cuz these raw files use up a ton of memory, and I don't have the greatest hard drive in the world. So I have to conserve memory, and I break up files and send then as I do runs, and delete them after they are sent. Thus, it is a real one time run, but I interrupt recording, and we don't factor in the time to change to a new file. Anyway, about the nuts - I accidentally swang my sword in the Lost Woods before going to Goron City, and the bush gave me Deku Nuts. I exposed of them ASAP, and continued on. You will notice I nowhere before that time use them, and I in no way benefitted. So, I just wanted to explain that to you all. (Ed note: this is why the time was rounded up to 5:25 instead of down to 5:24)"

    So already back from March/April 2004, he actually explains the situation, though there is still no logic to why he had to quit the game between each continues recording, instead of letting the game run. The Nut Icon appears at 3:04:14 in the 5:25 run posted previously. As it's the marked item in the inventory, it suggest that the previous pause was him first equipping it to get rid of the nuts and then unequipping them again, to match the inventory from his previous gameplay. The actual difference this makes is that he has another space to move his cursour to on the inventory, which actually cost a little bit of time, and that when he first got the nuts, at 5:04:43, he didn't get the "You got Deku Nuts!" text and fanfare, which is technically a small timesaver. In total, it's probably around equal, doesn't really matter though.

    He explains that he neither gain nor lost time recording the runs like this, but states that he probably lost more than he gained. But if he "randomly" chose which segments to use, it's quite easy, and logical, that anyone would pick the one that looks the best/is the fastest. It would seem that he didn't really gain anything on this. He could easily have, if he had known, set up the splices to give him an item drop advantage in TLoZ, ALttP or LA, which would have taken awhile to discover as it wasn't really well-known how the drops work for those games. No such advantage seems to have been done. Even if most of his gameplay is quite sub-par for today's standard, back then it wasn't, it could still have been the fastest parts that he put together in the end. Even if it was, it would technically not matter for the outcome.

    So yeah... That's probably all I have to add, in a quite detailed manner. For now at least =).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tompa View Post
    As he stated, he was unable to record all in one sitting, so he had to make it in parts. This is an understandable reason to why his longer runs were made like this. But because of that reason, and if you had to change DVD/VHS because it was full, the rules on SDA stated that you then should pause the game, make the switch, continue the recording on the pause menu for awhile and then continue the gameplay. But this TSA didn't. The same explanation has also been used by other runners, most recently for ExoSDA who was found that he spliced a well-known Super Meat Boy run, a discovery that's about a week old.

    I don't really have too much to say about TSA's explanation than what I already made in that topic:

    "The thing is, TSA, when you are unable to record everything in one go, if you need to change DVD, VHS or whatever, you simply pause the game and then continue the recording. What were your reasons to redo from scratch up to the point you left off and then continue recording? That's the real issue here."

    It also doesn't explain why he needed to do this for his shorter runs, like TLoZ, or the already segmented run of The Wind Waker.

    He also linked to the his comments on the 5:25 run, which he also quoted in the SDA topic. Here in an archieved link: https://web.archive.org/web/20100601...s/ZeldaOoT_525

    Stating: "Anyway, let's get some stuff out of the way. There is discontinuity in this run that probably nobody would notice, and even though it has zero effect on gameplay or time, I felt the need to still mention it. I "magically" have the Deku Nut icon in my sub menu somewhere through the run, but it reads as zero. How did I get them, and how did I dispose of them? I start/stop record my runs cuz these raw files use up a ton of memory, and I don't have the greatest hard drive in the world. So I have to conserve memory, and I break up files and send then as I do runs, and delete them after they are sent. Thus, it is a real one time run, but I interrupt recording, and we don't factor in the time to change to a new file. Anyway, about the nuts - I accidentally swang my sword in the Lost Woods before going to Goron City, and the bush gave me Deku Nuts. I exposed of them ASAP, and continued on. You will notice I nowhere before that time use them, and I in no way benefitted. So, I just wanted to explain that to you all. (Ed note: this is why the time was rounded up to 5:25 instead of down to 5:24)"

    So already back from March/April 2004, he actually explains the situation, though there is still no logic to why he had to quit the game between each continues recording, instead of letting the game run. The Nut Icon appears at 3:04:14 in the 5:25 run posted previously. As it's the marked item in the inventory, it suggest that the previous pause was him first equipping it to get rid of the nuts and then unequipping them again, to match the inventory from his previous gameplay. The actual difference this makes is that he has another space to move his cursour to on the inventory, which actually cost a little bit of time, and that when he first got the nuts, at 5:04:43, he didn't get the "You got Deku Nuts!" text and fanfare, which is technically a small timesaver. In total, it's probably around equal, doesn't really matter though.

    He explains that he neither gain nor lost time recording the runs like this, but states that he probably lost more than he gained. But if he "randomly" chose which segments to use, it's quite easy, and logical, that anyone would pick the one that looks the best/is the fastest. It would seem that he didn't really gain anything on this. He could easily have, if he had known, set up the splices to give him an item drop advantage in TLoZ, ALttP or LA, which would have taken awhile to discover as it wasn't really well-known how the drops work for those games. No such advantage seems to have been done. Even if most of his gameplay is quite sub-par for today's standard, back then it wasn't, it could still have been the fastest parts that he put together in the end. Even if it was, it would technically not matter for the outcome.

    So yeah... That's probably all I have to add, in a quite detailed manner. For now at least =).
    I'm out of my element here, so I wanna make sure I'm not misreading. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it almost sounds like instead of saying "i didnt splice" he's saying "yeah i did splice different runs but its ok because...." If i'm reading that correctly, is it even worth entertaining the possibility a splice might be justified? As long as its two different runs being spliced is there really any defense that works other than denial?
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