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Dispute: Brandon Finton - Nintendo 64 - Cruis'n Exotica - NTSC - Challenge - Mars - Venusville To Cerberus Race - Player: Tom Duncan - Score: 20.51

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Is this a valid dispute?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    if tom's description could be made public the holes would be found quicker than the issues with photos we've been recieiving in another thread
    It would end this dispute a lot quicker instead of dragging it on longer than necessary.
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    @Desidious

    I don't doubt that you are an expert on this game, but would you please make a video of this track and explain how anything below 1 minute is impossible? It would help add evidence to why this time is impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas View Post
    @Desidious

    I don't doubt that you are an expert on this game, but would you please make a video of this track and explain how anything below 1 minute is impossible? It would help add evidence to why this time is impossible.
    Absolutely. You will have to wait until the weekend. I boxed up all my cords to get ready to move sometime next year. I have the fastest car you can get and know all the tricks so it'll be easy to show. I swear I thought I had a video showing the details so give me time and I'll have something substantial.
    The Fisher King
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intellivision Master View Post
    When I hear "He must have been very busy adjudicating and didn't have time to fix his score" ... and he has access to the WORLD's video game record database .... He owed a duty to former, current and future gamers .... and didn't take the 60 seconds to fix it ?

    I can't accept that.

    "YES".

    Refs should have NEVER been allowed to compete. Period. None of this "well i have to submit like everyone else" because that has been shown in other threads by Robert that refs did in fact enter their own scores. Wonder why so many of the "top record" counts are former refs? I feel like ALL former refs scores should be removed as a sign of good faith here regardless if they are valid or not. Any score that was entered while you were an active ref is stricken due to a conflict of interest..... Again just my opinion....
    Dan Desjardins
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    Also not trying to hurry anything along but wow how long do we wait. Why cant this be closed and IF proof is presented re-instate it then?
    Dan Desjardins
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post
    Refs should have NEVER been allowed to compete. Period. None of this "well i have to submit like everyone else" because that has been shown in other threads by Robert that refs did in fact enter their own scores. Wonder why so many of the "top record" counts are former refs? I feel like ALL former refs scores should be removed as a sign of good faith here regardless if they are valid or not. Any score that was entered while you were an active ref is stricken due to a conflict of interest..... Again just my opinion....
    Or they should not have submitted while they were a ref. We have former refs submitting in this TGSAP era and to be fair, those scores should stay if for whatever other reasons we remove past TG referee scores.
    Remember, Tom had to verify tapes, set up variations, work, and take care of other life responsibilities. How would Tom have time to submit 6,000 scores to TG? Sure, a bunch of scores can be submitted, but still, even if most are not so great scores or first time play scores, it doesn't seem likely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danman1234 View Post
    Refs should have NEVER been allowed to compete. Period. None of this "well i have to submit like everyone else" because that has been shown in other threads by Robert that refs did in fact enter their own scores. Wonder why so many of the "top record" counts are former refs? I feel like ALL former refs scores should be removed as a sign of good faith here regardless if they are valid or not. Any score that was entered while you were an active ref is stricken due to a conflict of interest..... Again just my opinion....
    not just your opinion, its been the opinion of every competitive field for a very very long time now. TG definitely has to deal with the reputation of the one place that allowed refs to submit in a time period where everyone else in the world has already acknowledged such a thing was problematic. On the bright side, new employees cant submit, so the problem is closed going forward. The old way was a trust based system, where we dont even any longer know the names of the particular refs we're expected to trust, imported scores, again from places we have to trust while knowing nothing of their reputation.

    Even still, the rules of the time allowed it. Cheating wasnt allowed (well not officially according to the rules) so we can at least still get them on that when proven. But conflict of interest was known and tolerated at TG. I dont advocate a mass removal, but I do think some sort of indicator is justified. I'd really like to see another metric of "most TGSAP records" or "highest TGSAP ESI". The conflict of interest questionable - though not proven false -- score can and should stay since you cant go around destroying history but at the same time we need a level playing ground. We need "filtering". Keep the old scoreboard, but also add a way to track the best real records, not just the best historical records.
    Mr. Do's Castle champ
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    If Tom's strategy is posted, I can try to replicate the strategy on an emulator using savetstates and slowdowns to get it right.
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    Well that is the other "put everything that is not TGSAP on some archive and lets call this a day" is my other standard. Only TGSAP scores should hold a real place here. Which is why I agree most TGSAP records should be the list of most records not just everything in general. Same as highest ESI/etc. All that legacy stuff fine keep it but its its own list someplace else. That I support more than removing it all but I still think ref scores should be purged regardless if it was "allowed" then or not or put into a seperate "ref" only category and tracked just the same but not on the "main" lists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    not just your opinion, its been the opinion of every competitive field for a very very long time now. TG definitely has to deal with the reputation of the one place that allowed refs to submit in a time period where everyone else in the world has already acknowledged such a thing was problematic. On the bright side, new employees cant submit, so the problem is closed going forward. The old way was a trust based system, where we dont even any longer know the names of the particular refs we're expected to trust, imported scores, again from places we have to trust while knowing nothing of their reputation.

    Even still, the rules of the time allowed it. Cheating wasnt allowed (well not officially according to the rules) so we can at least still get them on that when proven. But conflict of interest was known and tolerated at TG. I dont advocate a mass removal, but I do think some sort of indicator is justified. I'd really like to see another metric of "most TGSAP records" or "highest TGSAP ESI". The conflict of interest questionable - though not proven false -- score can and should stay since you cant go around destroying history but at the same time we need a level playing ground. We need "filtering". Keep the old scoreboard, but also add a way to track the best real records, not just the best historical records.
    Dan Desjardins
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    I did a quick run though this level again using the rocket car.
    I managed to get 25 flips, and it took 25 seconds off the time you get when you cross the finish line.

    2:13.41 when I crossed the finish line minus the 25 seconds from the flips equals 1:48.41
    The best trick I know of, which are the rolls, only give a 2 second bonus, so even if they can be done on the cars, then 1:23.41 is what I could have done. There aren't any ramps in this course that allow for rolls to be done from what I can tell.
    Still, even if there's a trick that saves 3 seconds each time, it would not allow for a sub 1 minute time.

    Unless there is a better strategy or even a glitch, then this time is impossible.
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