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Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,574
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    subscribing
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    the good old boy system out of date

    Well i don`t think Billy counted on the good old boy system to be dead at TG. The timing was perfect (As predicted by Dwayne Richard) just before the open of the video game hall of fame Billy retakes both records. we or all no strangers to Billy's tricks and his off the shelf VHS tape`s and sure his library has run out. lets call call episode one last stab at an old trick to amaze and surprise :) I do believe the scores are legit and were most likely recorded in the privacy of Billy`s home basement. But Billy has an ego i guess and the temptation to make it look like he did it live, in wake of all the King Of Kong controversy and Billy own words laying down the myth scores are done live iv your a real gamer , a vary macho thing :) lol anyhow there you go , I`m not going to vote Yes or No; one way or another i feel I`m going to get burn for submission points; besides the angry mob of Billy supporter that would probably like to see me burn at the stake for evening question the man ...... :)
  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,083
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    good god almighty
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 4,889
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    Subscribed, this should be an interesting one...
  5. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,342
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCopeland View Post
    good god almighty
    +1.

    At the time these scores were submitted, and as I understand it, a legitimate verification method was having a TG referee witness your score live. You didn't have to submit physical evidence.

    TG supplied a referee to adjudicate on the day, he witnessed the scores, and approved them.

    Unless someone has a taped "confession" from the referee or player in question stating unequivocally that the scores were false, there is no case to answer here.

    The "evidence" submitted with this thread means absolutely nothing (as odd as the videos might be).

    There is a reason why the old guard at TG is no longer here. There is a reason why much of the arcade community are no longer here. It's because of threads like this. Sure, if there's a case to answer, by all means look into it. But posting a video of a guy "not" swapping a board out is hardly concrete evidence that the scores in this case never occurred.

    You cannot apply today's binary video-based ruleset of Twin Galaxies submissions, to the rules and requirements that were in place in the past. Different times, different submission requirements - as flaky as they might seem today, that's what they were.

    While the present-day TG community is frothing at the mouth at these historical witch hunts, real arcade enthusiasts are out there playing games, having fun and looking in shaking their heads. Suddenly everyone is an expert and has an opinion on everything?

    Twin Galaxies is not about scores. It's about the games, the community, the history, having respect for each other and having fun. (Remember fun anyone?).

    Casually browsing around the forums here today, sadly, I see very little of that, and too much of this sort of thread. The house we occupy is being taken apart brick by brick.
  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 12,547
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    +1.

    At the time these scores were submitted, and as I understand it, a legitimate verification method was having a TG referee witness your score live. You didn't have to submit physical evidence.

    TG supplied a referee to adjudicate on the day, he witnessed the scores, and approved them.

    Unless someone has a taped "confession" from the referee or player in question stating unequivocally that the scores were false, there is no case to answer here.

    The "evidence" submitted with this thread means absolutely nothing (as odd as the videos might be).

    There is a reason why the old guard at TG is no longer here. There is a reason why much of the arcade community are no longer here. It's because of threads like this. Sure, if there's a case to answer, by all means look into it. But posting a video of a guy "not" swapping a board out is hardly concrete evidence that the scores in this case never occurred.

    You cannot apply today's binary video-based ruleset of Twin Galaxies submissions, to the rules and requirements that were in place in the past. Different times, different submission requirements - as flaky as they might seem today, that's what they were.

    While the present-day TG community is frothing at the mouth at these historical witch hunts, real arcade enthusiasts are out there playing games, having fun and looking in shaking their heads. Suddenly everyone is an expert and has an opinion on everything?

    Twin Galaxies is not about scores. It's about the games, the community, the history, having respect for each other and having fun. (Remember fun anyone?).

    Casually browsing around the forums here today, sadly, I see very little of that, and too much of this sort of thread. The house we occupy is being taken apart brick by brick.
    I guess I don't understand this because I'm too busy having fun playing games and submitting my times/scores to at least track all of what I'm doing. :)
    The Fisher King
  7. VERIFIED Member Credibility: 1,729
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    At the time these scores were submitted, and as I understand it, a legitimate verification method was having a TG referee witness your score live. You didn't have to submit physical evidence.

    TG supplied a referee to adjudicate on the day, he witnessed the scores, and approved them.
    The referee in question was Todd Rogers, who is not a credible witness, and the videos presented here suggest there was no live score performed that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    Unless someone has a taped "confession" from the referee or player in question stating unequivocally that the scores were false, there is no case to answer here.
    These videos are as close to a confession as we'll ever get.

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    The "evidence" submitted with this thread means absolutely nothing (as odd as the videos might be).
    It means both Billy Mitchell and Todd Rogers are willing to fabricate a story as to how things played out that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    There is a reason why the old guard at TG is no longer here.
    Because cheating isn't allowed anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    There is a reason why much of the arcade community are no longer here.
    Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    ...posting a video of a guy "not" swapping a board out is hardly concrete evidence that the scores in this case never occurred.
    Again, it is concrete evidence that Billy will misrepresent the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    You cannot apply today's binary video-based ruleset of Twin Galaxies submissions, to the rules and requirements that were in place in the past. Different times, different submission requirements - as flaky as they might seem today, that's what they were.
    No we cannot apply the same submission requirements of today to historical scores, but not submitting a falsified score has always been a requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    While the present-day TG community is frothing at the mouth at these historical witch hunts, real arcade enthusiasts are out there playing games, having fun and looking in shaking their heads. Suddenly everyone is an expert and has an opinion on everything?
    Not a witch hunt. Still playing. And not suddenly. The only change is that the community has finally been given a voice to help clean up the scoreboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    Twin Galaxies is not about scores. It's about the games, the community, the history, having respect for each other and having fun. (Remember fun anyone?).
    TG is and always has been, in part, about the scores, though I agree community is far more important. Do you think these theatrics by Billy were respectful and done to better the community? Or were they self-serving?

    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    The house we occupy is being taken apart brick by brick.
    It's about damn time!

    Nothing but respect for you, TT, but we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this one.
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  8. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,348
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    I see both sides of this discussion.

    The reality is that Twin Galaxies is at a cross roads when it comes to the "integrity of the Legacy scoresbairds". A decision needs to be made:

    1. Clean up the entire scoreboard to the best of our ability and abide by a consistent standard of submission acceptance.

    2. Decide that the Legacy scoreboard is unable to be brought to modern day standards without doing more harm than good.

    If decision 2 is chosen, what can be done to honor the scores of the past while at the same time allowing for modern day competition standards on those tracks?
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  9. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,342
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwwnp View Post
    <snip>We're not going to see eye-to-eye on this one.
    I don't doubt it. ;)

    I'll watch with interest as to how this plays out, but I think you're rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

    For clarity, I know Bill and Todd, and happen to like them both as people. I'm not questioning the validity one way or another of these particular scores, more the methods used to question them. I hope the correct conclusion is reached whatever that might be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post

    I'll watch with interest as to how this plays out, but I think you're rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
    Hit the nail squarely on the head IMO. Accurate statement from my vantage point, though I must admit the popcorn for this viewing is delicious.
    Currently Playing: Front Page Sports baseball '98 (PC) (using custom built 2017 rosters)
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