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Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong - Points [Hammer Allowed] - Player: Billy L Mitchell - Score: 1,062,800

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. 02-14-2018, 04:36 PM
    I see most of the point behind my previous post was rendered moot while I was putting it together, thanks to Jace Hall's reassuringly astute summary. Well, there were really two points, the chief one being the concern that the oil drum/DK tell would not prove to be reliable, and my own preferred candidate, the broken beam.
  2. 02-14-2018, 04:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmNerdJock View Post
    25fps? Hmmm can't imagine why anyone would record it at that specific of a frame rate instead of the standard 30 or 60. Is this a Billy supporter?
    I do not know why xsplit chose to record at 25fps, I did not make any specific framerate tweaks that I can recall.

    I am not a support or and opponent of Billy. I want the truth to come out no matter who is right or wrong.
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  3. 02-14-2018, 04:48 PM
    I don't think this has been mentioned before, but MAME isn't guaranteed to run at 100% speed. On my computer it runs Donkey Kong at about 99.7% real time.

    Here's a side by side of gameplay taken from KoK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwECcfqX_I

    The 1UP in Billy's game blinks slightly slower than Wiebe's. The overall cycle takes approximately 16 frames. By 33 seconds, the 1UP counters are completely out of phase, meaning that Billy has missed 8 frames. Around a minute, the 1UPs return to phase which puts Wiebe a full 16 frames ahead. This means that the game on the left is running at 98% of the rate of the game on the right.

    I can't say if this is due to a mismatch between recording and playback speeds, but it might be worth investigating.
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  4. 02-14-2018, 04:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Barra View Post
    I can’t speak for Ken but that video was produced in 2013.
    Is PAL 25fps/50fieldps?
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  5. Thanks RomulusVonFlex thanked this post
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  6. 02-14-2018, 05:29 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert.F View Post
    This is the first fully coherent post I have seen from you yet man! Good stuff.
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  7. Two Bit Score converter PCB

    02-14-2018, 09:13 PM
    Looking at the pcb presented in the pictures. The chip appears to be the Fujitsu MB3516A. This chip does RGB to NTSC or PAL conversion. The giveaway is it is a 24 pin chip. I checked the pinout and it seems to match as the RGB inputs go into pins 2,3 and 4.This chip does NOT rearrange the video, so it would not account for the different drawing method shown in the video. Dave
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  8. 02-15-2018, 01:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Asterra View Post
    Now. If I were to cite a specific signature unique to both MAME and Billy's videos, but not reproducible through a happy video accident, let alone countless times across three separate high score runs, it would have to be Xelnia's original MAME 0.116-0.121 barrel transition:

    MAME .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Billy
    Attachment 50298Attachment 50297

    More specifically this thing here:

    Attachment 50299

    We have the top third of the board partially rendered, one bar conveniently complete from left to right with no breaks, and that uniquely cut-off bit on the bar below it. That's your smoking gun. To the best of my reckoning, you will never have a camera or a VCR spit that out if you start from a real Donkey Kong machine, and certainly not across multiple instances in the same run.
    I agree that this is a much better indicator. Anything to be presented as final evidence must be 100% conclusive. Even if it's camera trickery, the fact that we can see the barrel without Kong cannot be used as evidence of Billy playing MAME. It must be something which they can't deny under any circumstances.
  9. 02-15-2018, 02:14 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by bounty bob View Post
    It must be something which they can't deny under any circumstances.
    They will anyway.
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  10. 02-15-2018, 02:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by bounty bob View Post
    I agree that this is a much better indicator. Anything to be presented as final evidence must be 100% conclusive. Even if it's camera trickery, the fact that we can see the barrel without Kong cannot be used as evidence of Billy playing MAME. It must be something which they can't deny under any circumstances.
    It is important to understand that TG is reviewing and either confirming or invalidating the evidence that gets presented in this dispute thread.

    The tapes that are allegedly recordings of Billy Mitchell's gameplay are presented here as evidence of non original arcade gameplay due to the characteristic of how the screen image is being drawn. This is an assertion that we have to verify or invalidate through comprehensive testing.

    These source recordings are direct-feed recordings, and are not captured by a camera.

    Therefore no "camera trickery" can take place in regard to this specific piece of evidence. This is an important point.

    This is why it has been important to establish that an Original Donkey Kong Arcade PCB literally will not ever produce a single visual frame where the Oil can is present but the Donkey Kong character is not. Establishing this as a baseline is important because it means that a direct feed signal that connects to a VHS recording device can never contain the image of those two items drawn separately that you might see with "camera trickery."

    So far, all testing indicates that it literally can not happen and we have a very consistent baseline (along with other indicators like girders/etc.)

    Given that we have established that an original DK PCB will not ever produce a single frame containing the DK character without the Oil Can on the Barrel Board, we have to then investigate the nature of each digital version of the Billy Mitchell evidence recordings.

    The youtube videos of the alleged Billy Mitchell recordings may have been captured from the original VHS tapes in such a way that "camera trickery" (if a screen was filmed to produce the digital copy) or some other technical issue caused loss of data or split frame display similar to what @Scoundrl produced - resulting in the appearance of what looks to be non-Original Arcade Donkey Kong gameplay.

    There is also the video footage provided by @timmell that needs to be closely analyzed for similar issues.

    We are making efforts to acquire the original tapes so that we might be able to scrutinize them and eliminate the unknown digital capture methods used in putting those particular tapes on Youtube. We will see what we can find.

    Please know that we are looking into all aspects of this dispute as fairly and as comprehensively as possible.
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