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Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Gorf - Points [3 Ships] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 653,990

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED VERIFIED Credibility: 10,341
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    Dispute: John McAllister - Arcade - Gorf - Points [3 Ships] - Player: Todd Rogers - Score: 653,990

    Arcade - Gorf - Points [3 Ships]
    Score Trackhttp://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=1257
    RulesDip Switch Bank:
    1-4 = OFF
    5 = ON
    6-8 = OFF

    Note: The above Dip Switches, are not only the FACTORY DEFAULT settings, but are also the correct Twin Galaxies Tournament Settings for this title and will provide the following settings;
    1 Coin, 1 Player = 3 Bases
    2 Coins, 1 Player = 6 Bases
    English Language
    Bonus Base Awarded after Mission 5
    Special Rules: This is a 1 Credit only variation!
    Player NameTodd Rogers
    Original AdjudicationN/A
    Verification MethodReferee
    Verification Date1982-11-24
    Disputed Score653,990 (Rank 3)
    Disputed Byredelf
    Dispute Evidence / RationaleMostly bringing this up so that some clarification can be done on this score. It was originally a 6 ship score and later changed to a 3 ship score.
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  2. VERIFIED VERIFIED Credibility: 10,341
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    I believe that score happened. I'm just providing this dispute so that others can chime in and not have someone down the road bring it up do to them finding that it was recorded at 6 lives. This way current players and such that know what happened can provide the information while they are still around.
  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,351
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    The one thing I like about these score disputes, especially about the historic ones, is we get a chance to learn the history of a world record. I approve of this one, as hopefully we'll get some testimony into what is a piece of history.
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    Some additional context on this. Wayne from the old Video Paradise arcade in San Jose, had an old printout of the Top 5 scores per game of the Twin Galaxies Scoreboard from 5/27/83. Wayne scanned it and shared it at http://www.videoparadise-sanjose.com/tg-top5.htm. The whole list is interesting as is the rest of his site at http://www.videoparadise-sanjose.com/, however relevant to this thread are the Gorf listings.

    As of 5/27/83, Todd's score was listed in the Twin Galaxies database as a 5th place score of 663,990 having been done using 6 ship settings and achieved on 11/24/82. The current Twin Galaxies database does not list any of the 4 scores that were listed above Todd's as of 5/27/83, and in addition Todd's score is now listed as 653,990 having been done using 3 ship settings with the same 11/24/82 date.

    From the 5/27/83 printout (http://www.videoparadise-sanjose.com/tg-top5.htm)

    1) 2,220,000 - Jason Smith – 6 ships – 2/13/83
    2) 723,300 - Allen Menard - ? ships - 1/5/83
    3) 707,230 - Victor Ng - 6 ships - 4/15/83
    4) 704,590 - John Chandler - 6 ships - 12/31/82
    5) 663,990 - Todd Rogers - 6 ships - 11/24/82

    Does anybody know why, when and by whom the scores above Todd's were removed and Todd's Gorf score was changed from a 6 ship score to a 3 ship score and changed from 663,990 to 653,990? All the scores listed are certainly possible as evidenced by two recent modern era scores of 900K+.
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  5. VERIFIED VERIFIED Credibility: 10,341
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    @RTM wondering if you have some insight into this.
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    Todd NEVER plays Gorf with 6 ships. The game is too EASY for him. He can just play with 3 ships until he gets tired of playing. At my house, he played a game to over 200,000 on his first life and then handed the game off to me to finish. I went about another 20 missions myself. Todd is much more consistent than I at Gorf :) . Please close this dispute. The score is not even in first place any longer. It is a 3rd place score for Pete's sake! Who would dispute a score that is not even in first place? One day Todd may decide to beat the current record. But this dispute is not necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Yancey View Post
    Todd NEVER plays Gorf with 6 ships. The game is too EASY for him. He can just play with 3 ships until he gets tired of playing. At my house, he played a game to over 200,000 on his first life and then handed the game off to me to finish. I went about another 20 missions myself. Todd is much more consistent than I at Gorf :) . Please close this dispute. The score is not even in first place any longer. It is a 3rd place score for Pete's sake! Who would dispute a score that is not even in first place? One day Todd may decide to beat the current record. But this dispute is not necessary.
    If a score is invalid, it shouldn't be on the leaderboard. It doesn't matter if the player could do it legitimately or even easily beat it. This site has chosen to treat the presence of a score on the leaderboard as evidence that the score is valid. If the site doesn't actively prevent invalid scores from remaining on the leaderboard, this argument will lose all credibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Yancey View Post
    Todd NEVER plays Gorf with 6 ships. The game is too EASY for him. He can just play with 3 ships until he gets tired of playing. At my house, he played a game to over 200,000 on his first life and then handed the game off to me to finish. I went about another 20 missions myself. Todd is much more consistent than I at Gorf :) . Please close this dispute. The score is not even in first place any longer. It is a 3rd place score for Pete's sake! Who would dispute a score that is not even in first place? One day Todd may decide to beat the current record. But this dispute is not necessary.
    Thanks for your feedback David. If you're correct about Todd never playing Gorf with 6 ships it sounds like Todd's original score from 11/28/1982 should never have been entered in the TG database in the first place, and in addition his score of 487,470 from 6/3/2006 on the Gorf [Points [6 Ships]] arcade track must also be wrong. You can probably get somebody with 4,000+ credibility to start a dispute for that score. That said, since neither of Todd's existing Gorf arcade entries in the TG database are first place scores anyway, the easiest thing to do might just be to remove the scores and as you suggested Todd can submit new first place scores on them through the TGSAP system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gstrain View Post
    the easiest thing to do might just be to remove the scores and as you suggested Todd can submit new first place scores on them through the TGSAP system.
    That definitely seems like the easiest solution. Win/Win for everyone.
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    The masses are always easily manipulated to destroy themselves.

    Hello Twin Galaxies Commissioner Dave,


    I present to you the full account in chronological order of the Todd Rogers Gorf Record that has been disputed.

    Early 1983 - Todd Rogers sets the record of 653,990 with 3 ships at the Haunted Trails Arcade in Burbank, Illinois.

    April 1983 - Joystick Magazine publishes Todd Rogers record submitted by the Haunted Trails Arcade. The Score reads as 653,990. No mention of the amount of ships is stated however. Evidence link: https://archive.org/stream/joystik_m...e/n63/mode/2up (also see attached for photo)

    May 1983 - Twin Galaxies produces a spread sheet of scores on the Gorf Arcade game gathered from various sources, submissions and Joystick Magazine. Listed is a invalid score of 2m+ and other Gorf Scores. Todd Rogers score is incorrectly listed at 663,990 and at 6 ships.

    Summer 1997 - Walter Day writes his book "The Twin Galaxies Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records". Here he audits all the scores of as many records as he can so that the book would have as least inaccurate records as possible. The 2m+ Gorf Score is removed.

    February 1998 - Walter Day's "The Twin Galaxies Official Video Game & Pinball Book of World Records" is released to the public. In the book, Todd Rogers Gorf score is published correctly as 653,990 under the 3 lives ship settings. (See attached from the official book)

    Sometime 1999 - Walter Day launches the Twin Galaxies International Scoreboard online. The record is correctly transferred to the TGI online database.

    September 2017 - Walter Day addresses "typo" of the record in a email now forwarded to you. "This is the official score for Todd Rogers. The score 663,990 was a typo that was corrected more than 30 years ago."



    Please see attached assets and scroll below for the original email from Walter Day to me regarding the "Typo" of Todd Rogers Gorf Record. If you have any question, please let me know.

    Than you

    Original Email Submitted to Twin Galaxies Adjudication Authorities

    THE TWIN GALAXIES' OFFICIAL VIDEO GAME & PINBALL BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS was written during the summer and fall of 1997 and released to the bookstores on February 8, 1998.


    Here are scans of page 90 and 91, which show the listing for arcade Gorf.


    The scans say:


    GORF (Midway)
    Diff: none; Start: 3 ships; Bonus: limited, 1 more ship at 10,000 points.
    Note: There is a harder chip which can be recognized by the extra fireballs thrown out during the warp sequence. Also, the Laser Ships go all the way to the sides of the screen, leaving no room to hide.


    653,990 Todd Rogers Haunted Trails; Burbank, IL 11/24/82
    154,260 Kevin Winter The Dungeon; Butte, MT 5/27/82
    145,200 Walter Day Twin Galaxies; Ottumwa, IA 7/5/83


    This is the official score for Todd Rogers. The score 663,990 was a typo that was corrected more than 30 years ago.


    Thank you, Walter Day


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