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Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong 3 - Points [Marathon] - Player: George Riley - Score: 8,772,700

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 5,588
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    Dispute: Jeremy Young - Arcade - Donkey Kong 3 - Points [Marathon] - Player: George Riley - Score: 8,772,700



    Arcade - Donkey Kong 3 - Points [Marathon]
    Score Trackhttp://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=23
    RulesDip-Switch Bank 1:
    A-G = OFF
    H = ON
    Dip-Switch Bank 2:
    I-K = OFF
    L-N = UNUSED
    O = OFF
    P = OFF/ON [Upright/Table]
    Note: The above Dip Switches, are the correct Twin Galaxies Settings for this title and will provide the following settings;
    Number of Players Per Game: 3
    Extra: 30,000 Points
    Additional Extra: 30,000 Points
    Difficulty: Medium [3]
    Player NameGeorge Riley
    Original AdjudicationN/A
    Verification MethodReferee
    Verification Date2012-11-18
    Disputed Score8,772,700 (Rank 1)
    Disputed Byxelnia
    Dispute Evidence / RationaleThis score was actually done on Difficulty 2, not the required Difficulty 3. George Riley himself questioned the settings for this performance. Part 1 of this score should be uploaded as part of this evidence package. That was the video I used in my original analysis (which I will copy and paste in a reply). The rest of the videos are linked below.

    Original DKF thread started by Riley
    Second DKF thread with gameplay analysis
    DK3 Difficulty Reference Chart

    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3
    Part 4
    Part 5
    Part 6
    Part 7
    Part 8

    George's actual high score on Difficulty 3 is 4,252,400, which was submitted to and verified by TG in January 2012. George has said he can't currently locate the DVD of his 4.2M score and it appears that successful disputes do not roll scores back to a previous best, so he has submitted his next best Difficulty 3 score: 3,538,000. This score was also originally submitted to and verified by TG in June 2011.
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  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 5,588
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    My original analysis post from DKF is below. Copying tables from one forum format to another is a pain, so I've posted that section as an image file.

    ------------------------------------

    Well, George, I think you may be right after all. I did some more digging and I'm convinced that this score was set on Difficulty 2 (MAME Medium), and NOT the TG Arcade setting of Difficulty 3 (MAME Hard).

    Your initial look at the coconuts didn't convince me, as I explained, so I started looking for some other things to measure. The Bonus Timer would have worked, but it's not visible in your video. So, I ended up using the rate at which Kong descends on the vines (ropes?).

    Below is a table that gives the rate, in frames, at which Kong descends for every "step" along the way. As you get deeper into the game, the rate increases. For example, on Difficulty 1, on Board 1 Kong takes 65 frames for each drop. On Board 6 this speeds up to 57 frames per drop. All Difficulty levels reach the maximum drop rate by Board 27. There are things that cause Kong to pause (spraying him, coconut throwing) but he always resumes his descent at the drop rate for that board. The counter that determines when he moves will actually pause during those spray/coconut moments and then pick back up in same spot when those animations are finished. Anyway...

    I downloaded Part 1 of your video and used VirtualDub to examine it frame-by-frame. There are 4 boards that I think conclusively prove this was on Difficulty 2 settings: Board 3, Board 12, Board 18, and Board 21.

    On Board 3, your video matches the 57 frames per drop rate. Looking at the table below, that value matches both Difficulty 2 and Difficulty 3. So, that rules out Difficulty 1 and Difficulty 4. On Board 12, your video matches the 51 frames per drop rate, which would match both Difficulty 1 and Difficulty 2. However, Board 3 rules out Difficulty 1, so we're left with Difficulty 2.

    To make sure the video quality wasn't interfering with my analysis, I checked Board 18 and Board 21 as well. Both boards match the value expected for Difficulty 2. Board 18 was too slow to be Difficulty 3 (but matches Difficulty 1). Board 21 was too slow to be Difficulty 3 but too fast to be Difficulty 1.

    Let me know what you think. At this point I will probably move this score over to the Difficulty 2 Marathon HSL, replacing your 6.1M MAME score. I'll also need some links/INPs for your best actual Difficulty 3 score. And speaking of INPs, you should post the ones you have for your 1.5M Difficulty 2 5-man, 2.4M Difficulty 4 Marathon, and 600k Difficulty 4 5-man.

    dk3kongdrops.PNG
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  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,003
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    From what you've said about George resubmitting an older run, it sounds like he agrees with your analysis? If that's the case, would you be able to ask him to make a statement here? It would make it an extremely simple dispute to accept and we could discuss with Dave whether it would be possible to reinstate his previous score.

    Plus it just looks nice when someone contributes to getting their own wrongful scores removed.
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,129
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    Yeah, this is the score that has always bugged me. I felt that it was on the wrong settings. One thing that stood out to me was Donkey Kong never dangled from the bottom rope. Maybe he did once or twice, but he wasn't moving down as fast as I would expect him, and that bugged me.
    I then did the five man score after doing this score, and instantly I noticed that five man seemed harder than marathon.
    Probably an honest mistake by the people who put up the event. Ironically if I never video tapped this run, there would be no questions to it's authenticity. That should give some people pause about all "live scores" past, and present that have no video proof. Especially ones with different difficulty settings.

    One thing though. I don't want the score removed. I simply want the score transferred to the proper settings. There has already been talk of creating a proper setting for the easy setting DK3 marathon MAME submissions that were on easy instead of medium that are being disputed.
    This score I still hold in very high regard. It's still one of my greatest scores of all time, and so I'd like to see it transferred to the proper setting if possible. Thank you.
    Space Jockey (Atari 2600) 1,321,495 3rd highest score in the world.
  5. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 5,650
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    Accepted dispute but would also like to see this score moved and not removed from the database. It's truly one of the great scores, as much as I hate to admit it :D
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  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,497


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    Quote Originally Posted by Barra View Post
    Accepted dispute but would also like to see this score moved and not removed from the database. It's truly one of the great scores, as much as I hate to admit it :D
    Agree we just need a track for diff 2
    Dan Desjardins
  7. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,234
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    What's the hold up on this dispute? It's cut and dry based on the evidence provided and the player himself has said it's not on the correct track. What are next steps?
  8. VERIFIED Legendary Member Credibility: 2,574
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    Agree that the score is too phenomenal to just delete. Create a second track, it's worth preserving such a massive effort.
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