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Dispute: william rosa - Odyssey² / Videopac - Quest For The Rings - NTSC - 2 Player Team - Fastest Completion - Player: Richard Latchau - Score: 00.0

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Is this a valid dispute?

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    Dispute: william rosa - Odyssey² / Videopac - Quest For The Rings - NTSC - 2 Player Team - Fastest Completion - Player: Richard Latchau - Score: 00.0

    Odyssey² / Videopac - Quest For The Rings - NTSC - 2 Player Team - Fastest Completion
    Score Trackhttp://www.twingalaxies.com/scores.php?scores=9902
    Rules2 persons are required to play. Submissions must be made under your Team User ID.
    Start the game by pressing Button (0) on the Alpha-Numeric Keypad.
    Use of the "Space Button" on the Keypad to gain Ringmaster Control is NOT allowed. Use of this button at any time during the game will disqualify your run.
    Timing begins the moment Player 2 presses the Fire Button after choosing a character and ends the moment a player touches the 10th ring.
    Player NameRichard Latchau
    Original AdjudicationN/A
    Verification MethodReferee
    Verification Date1983-07-04
    Disputed Score00.0 (Rank 1)
    Disputed BySnowflake
    Dispute Evidence / RationaleWow, not only is there a mistake on the scoreboard, there's a bug in the disupte itself. The score is listed 9,996 - for a speedrun. Obvioulsy a score on a timed track makes no sense. Even weirder, now that i'm challenged it, I'm seeing the challenge says the score is listed as zero and I cant edit that. The fact the score in this challenge differs from the score listed on the scoreboard tells me there's at least one bug, perhaps there's a second bug and the score itself is just a display issue and correct time is hidden in the system somewhere? Whatever the case is, there's no way this is accurate as is.
  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 14,120
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    An obvious YES. Its a specific bug/glitch within the TG time/score track entry
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    Haha what the hell is going on here? Another score Walter misplaced.

    There are no points in the game. I created the track in 2006. It's a two player speed run...

    Easy YES vote.
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    Voting yes
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    I finally found someone to play this game with me, I know this isnt a place for track dispute itself, but I'd go so far as to see the track itself is basically invalid. The game is a cool concept but it was never suitable to be tracked, here's the summary.

    This is one of odyssey's three board game/video game hybrid. Its better though to view it as a board game that has a video game component. Think of something like mario party where you go around a board,and then certain squares open up a mini game, well that's basically what this did, except the board game part was played on a real board. When you land on certain castles you have to input into the odyssey exactly what type of tower/dungeon you landed on, how many enemies in it, if theres a ring or not.... once you tell the computer the type of square you landed on, then the computer can create the mini game and let you fight your way through.

    Obviously as you create your own dungeons and then just tell the computer which dungeon you created, the game is totally unsuitable for competition. There is however a practice mode, where you cannot lose, you basically have infinite lives, and just keep going through random practice dungeons until you win 10. That's what this tracks. I mean, i get it, the real game is untrackable since it would just involve everyone creating their own dungeons. The practice mode, while technically trackable, is just that, a practice mode. Not much benefit in tracking a practice mode.


    If this game ever gets popular (unlikely, but a girl can dream cant she?) I would suggest the fans coming together and agreeing on a pre-defined dungeon lay out, and then the game gets played in real mode.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    I finally found someone to play this game with me, I know this isnt a place for track dispute itself, but I'd go so far as to see the track itself is basically invalid. The game is a cool concept but it was never suitable to be tracked, here's the summary.

    This is one of odyssey's three board game/video game hybrid. Its better though to view it as a board game that has a video game component. Think of something like mario party where you go around a board,and then certain squares open up a mini game, well that's basically what this did, except the board game part was played on a real board. When you land on certain castles you have to input into the odyssey exactly what type of tower/dungeon you landed on, how many enemies in it, if theres a ring or not.... once you tell the computer the type of square you landed on, then the computer can create the mini game and let you fight your way through.

    Obviously as you create your own dungeons and then just tell the computer which dungeon you created, the game is totally unsuitable for competition. There is however a practice mode, where you cannot lose, you basically have infinite lives, and just keep going through random practice dungeons until you win 10. That's what this tracks. I mean, i get it, the real game is untrackable since it would just involve everyone creating their own dungeons. The practice mode, while technically trackable, is just that, a practice mode. Not much benefit in tracking a practice mode.


    If this game ever gets popular (unlikely, but a girl can dream cant she?) I would suggest the fans coming together and agreeing on a pre-defined dungeon lay out, and then the game gets played in real mode.
    I disagree with you in two large ways.

    In the case of not being able to compete in the main game due to involving a physical board component, I think TGSAP would indeed make it possible to compete. Adjudicators would simply have to be strict about ensuring that the video recording makes it ABSOLUTELY clear that the game was played properly. It'd be cumbersome, but it's totally possible. The bigger problem I guess would be that I don't know what you would actually compete in. I don't know if the game tracks score at all, and speedrunning a board game seems...odd? It's probably doable but I can't really picture it.

    In the case of tracking a practice mode, I fail to see the problem. From your description, the 'game' has a clear win condition, even if it isn't the main game mode. To me this would be like saying that the tracks for individual Mario Party minigames are invalid and only the full story playthroughs should be tracked.
  7. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 7,863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapler90210 View Post
    I disagree with you in two large ways.

    In the case of not being able to compete in the main game due to involving a physical board component, I think TGSAP would indeed make it possible to compete. Adjudicators would simply have to be strict about ensuring that the video recording makes it ABSOLUTELY clear that the game was played properly. It'd be cumbersome, but it's totally possible. The bigger problem I guess would be that I don't know what you would actually compete in. I don't know if the game tracks score at all, and speedrunning a board game seems...odd? It's probably doable but I can't really picture it.

    In the case of tracking a practice mode, I fail to see the problem. From your description, the 'game' has a clear win condition, even if it isn't the main game mode. To me this would be like saying that the tracks for individual Mario Party minigames are invalid and only the full story playthroughs should be tracked.
    you're correct. I had been trying to find a partner for a long time to play the game with me. I was a little enthusiast and got more opinionated then i should've been. While I stand by the initial dispute -- score entry for time makes no sense, there's nothing wrong with the track itself other than its just not a way that I think is very fun to play.
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    Voting YES
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    If this is a case of a record being accomplished in zero scores, then the issue is completely moot.

    It is NOT A RECORD.

    The very definition of a record goes beyond the simple understanding of the highest, fastest, etc...it IMPLIES that there was an effort made AND that the record is quantifiable and scale-able against all previous attempts.

    There was a speed run discussion over a year ago, a very heated one, in which the concept of TG incorporating "glitch runs" would work, and people were on both sides of the issue.

    As a former referee, I railed against glitch runs but only against those which were so egregious that they technically were no longer gaming...such as theoretically pushing a combination of "START" and one or more buttons and instantly finishing the game. That "effort" is not even worthy of being tracked AS a record let alone wasting the time to see who could do it the fastest.

    On principle alone I am voting that a time-based record like this is not worthy of being tracked by TG...period. Not even whether the attempt itself was accomplished...I could care less that it was, it is simply not a score worthy of being tracked in the TG database.
  10. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 7,863
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    If this is a case of a record being accomplished in zero scores, then the issue is completely moot.

    It is NOT A RECORD.

    The very definition of a record goes beyond the simple understanding of the highest, fastest, etc...it IMPLIES that there was an effort made AND that the record is quantifiable and scale-able against all previous attempts.

    There was a speed run discussion over a year ago, a very heated one, in which the concept of TG incorporating "glitch runs" would work, and people were on both sides of the issue.

    As a former referee, I railed against glitch runs but only against those which were so egregious that they technically were no longer gaming...such as theoretically pushing a combination of "START" and one or more buttons and instantly finishing the game. That "effort" is not even worthy of being tracked AS a record let alone wasting the time to see who could do it the fastest.

    On principle alone I am voting that a time-based record like this is not worthy of being tracked by TG...period. Not even whether the attempt itself was accomplished...I could care less that it was, it is simply not a score worthy of being tracked in the TG database.
    First let me thank you for your support, however I think youre supporting this for the wrong reason. The zero time you're looking at is the second bug I describe in my challenge. The title of this dispute is incorrect and is a bug in and of itself. The score is not listed as zero on the scorboard its only listed as zero here for some reason. I think thats the point you're focusing on. The real reason to remove this is that scoreboard lists a number 9996 actually for a speedrun which of course also makes no sense. So there are two issues, one with the score itself and one with the challenge system presenting incorrect info in the title.
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