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Dispute: Simon Leitch - PlayStation 2 - Need for Speed Underground - NTSC - Circuit Mode - Inner City [Fastest Lap] - Player: ruven zambrano - Score: 47.08

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Is this a valid dispute?

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  1. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 14,123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Dreadlock View Post
    Irrelevant. Despite several members' objections, Twin Galaxies has stated that records with disappearing evidence will be removed, regardless of the reason for the disappearance.

    Providing evidence within a dispute is futile, as it does not fix the fact that the submission no longer contains its evidence.
    I didnt adjudicate this one...So are we saying that this video was suddenly deleted PRIOR, to the acceptance? (During pending status)
    If so, I agree with you.

    AD, if you could find it, can you please link that TG statement you are refering to. I was not familiar it was a policy, and would help with the dispute.
  2. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 29,026
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    Just in case anyone is wondering why the evidence disappeared .6.9.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And yes, this manoeuvre was pulled before acceptance of the submission.

    Thus, another thing I am testing is whether or not members who take the piss like this incur some sort of reputation penalty.
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  3. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 2,390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcade View Post
    I didnt adjudicate this one...So are we saying that this video was suddenly deleted PRIOR, to the acceptance? (During pending status)
    If so, I agree with you.
    Yes, this is what I said in my previous comment. When I voted on it last night, the videos had been deleted. My comment as such is in the adjudication thread.
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  4. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 29,026
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    Anyone wishing to assess TG's policy concerning missing evidence should find this of interest:-

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    There is no procedure in place by which a submitter can correct the event of a submission evidence removal event, because it doesn't matter why submission evidence has been removed.

    Once an accepted submission has been tampered with in any way for any reason that results in evidence that WAS present at time of adjudication being NO LONGER present, that submission has become invalid.

    There is no re-uploading to that particular adjudication, there is no error correction opportunity. There is just the fact that an an accepted adjudication has had evidence removed. That is not allowed and that is the end of the matter.

    Because that is the policy, there is no need for any correction procedure. User's can always re-submit with proper evidence available, go through the process again and create a new and fully documented adjudication record.

    If a missing evidence scenario is found, that submission is invalidated. Period. End of story. "Temporarily missing" means nothing. Missing is missing. No exceptions. This is the risk that users take with 3rd party hosting of evidence. It is up to the submitter.

    The only time evidence can acceptably "go missing" is if it is video evidence that has been directly uploaded to Twin Galaxies. If for some reason Twin Galaxies has a video hosting problem where evidence can not be temporarily shown for some reason, there is no risk of rejection. This is because Twin Galaxies has direct control over the video evidence and can guarantee that it remains unaltered and untouched by the original submitter.

    As it is, TG already has a situation where people who have submitted video evidence via 3rd party hosting can currently re-upload a different video into their evidence submission without people easily knowing. They can do this at the 3rd party video hosting source site. The only way to discover that this has happened is to re-examine the evidence, check dates, etc. which most people will not do.

    Once the new removal policy starts to fall into effect, any member caught doing this activity will get banned of course. So I would advise against it. We will be going through the database over time to detect where this may have happened.

    Again, the reason for missing evidence makes ZERO difference. Submission evidence can not go missing once adjudicated. If some members want to risk relying on a 3rd party video hosting site and monitor of all the various scenarios you describe, that is up to them.

    Now I will reiterate that until Twin Galaxies reasonably solves its direct uploading issues to better support low bandwidth users, we will not be enforcing the evidence removal rejection policy - but once the matter is solved the user base should expect swift and immediate action as we do not want TGSAP scores in the database that do not contain the evidence that was supplied at the time of adjudication.
    My interpretation of the above is that this "world record" is doomed to obliteration, and rightly so.
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  5. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 12,601
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    As these adjudications will affect me possibly, I will say I voted at the time the evidence was presented. I enjoy racing games so I usually adjudicate them when I see them. I should have known it was The Circle Jerks by it being Jesse's room in the video. I never vote on their stuff or Jesse's anymore because of it.

    I do remember SIOTS doing a segment where one of these where Lost in Adjudication and there was evidence at the time.

    I think removal of all scores related to this user should be removed without penalty but it's just my opinion of course.

    @Jesse porter You do bad business here with your friends. You've seemed to have moved on to *****ing about speedrun.com but maybe you still frequent here enough to see the tag. Hasn't there been multiple times from multiple people from your group that have done this? Don't you run all their accounts? I think you should be held accountable.
    The Fisher King
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  6. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 29,026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desidious View Post
    Stop harassing innocent members
  7. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 29,026
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    I don't mind revealing that I voted 'no' on this submission, since adjudication's been concluded. This is relatively significant because, even though I'm a "blind voter", my CR is high. My vote must have been counterbalanced by at least one voter with high CR, or perhaps a large number of voters with low CR. Either way, a lot of TG credibility is going to be lost, when this "world record" is thrown in the dustbin.

    Most people don't mind losing TG credibility, if it's due to an honest mistake. But this deletion of a You Tube account, which contained the evidence of all this member's submissions, is another matter. I'm tempted to characterise it as the submitter's taking a dump on adjudicators' efforts, but I'll forbear. Perhaps he can provide a good explanation as to why he did it, and also why he didn't cancel his open submissions (of which there were at least three). This dispute is a golden opportunity for him to provide said explanations.

    He should probably note that TG said he
    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall View Post
    will accrue a new public statistic of having lost or removed evidence from a processed adjudication so that other members can be aware that this submitter has a record of that activity
    and we wouldn't want his perfect 100% record of evidence deletion to be blown out of proportion by members upset by the aforementioned TG credibility losses. So, I hope he grasps this chance to tell everyone what the real story is.
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  8. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 3,325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Dreadlock View Post
    Irrelevant. Despite several members' objections, Twin Galaxies has stated that records with disappearing evidence will be removed, regardless of the reason for the disappearance.

    Providing evidence within a dispute is futile, as it does not fix the fact that the submission no longer contains its evidence.
    Providing evidence during a dispute is exactly what should be done. If somebody's submission evidence disappeared buy they can provide it here, great. We can review it and voice our opinions. The TG Commish can weigh the evidence and make the final call.

    As for this particular dispute I agree. No evidence = reject.
    "May the Heavy Hand spare you" -- Datagod 1:19
    ~~ Strongest Punch on Twin Galaxies ~~

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  9. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,690
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    I thought that TG permitted the use of the disputes mechanism to attach additional evidence eg. A player could contest their own score to add evidence. Yes clumsy but I swear there was a test case unless TG backtracked on that afterwards
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  10. VERIFIED Senior Member Credibility: 1,690
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    Okay just read Jace's reply - will dig more when I get home.

    Seems like TG should ban external links to evidence to avoid burning members who adjudicated in good faith.
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