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80sArcadeKid
02-27-2021 at 10:55 PM
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'Grandfathered' arcade tracks locked out... why?

We apologize for the inconvenience, but this variation is no longer available for submissions. The scores within now fall under the Grandfather clause where they all will remain but no more scores will be added.

If you wish to submit for this title, please consult with the Tournament Settings variation for this title, found here;
https://www.twingalaxies.com/index.a...=3413&vi=31490

What is the Grandfather clause? Also the link above in the Rules statement is dead.

So why did some games get 'Grandfathered'?

https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/ghosts-n-goblins/arcade


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  1. 80sArcadeKid's Avatar

    Replying to my own message here.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grandfatherclause.asp

    I gather if one wanted to, they could create a new track under TGSAP with the same settings as the Grandfathered track.

    I was just curious why this happened.

  2. Barra's Avatar

    This would have been a decision made by a previous TG administration. There's some similar "DECA only" variations that were event specific that can still be submitted to under TGSAP

    In this case, Ghosts n Goblins has some major leeching issues so they probably thought it would be better to grandfather the track without any limitations around the number of lives you can use, or another such stipulation that would limit the player's ability to leech out the score.

    These variations still count for ESI and record counts so they can submitted to just like any other under TGSAP. The rules probably just need to be removed/updated to avoid any confusion (:

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  3. The Evener's Avatar

    All restrictions on grandfathered tracks should have been lifted when Jace took over, so I think the language in the rules was something that was missed. I just clicked through on the "submit" button and it brought me to the submission screen so I believe it would work.

    So at this point we would just request to have that the track be retitled "Points [Marathon]" and have the current rules language removed and replaced with relevant track rules.

    The whole grandfathering exercise was generally contentious, and particularly in this case, shouldn't have been done in the first place since the tournament track put up scores that eclipsed Nelson's marathon score in no time.

    On the issue of rules, the MAME marathon track rules were a mirror of the arcade marathon track (the track currently grandfathered) so I would simply write to the scoreboard errors wall post with a link to the arcade track with a request to remove the grandfathered text to replace with the marathon rules in force at the time, with the addition of a "no leeching" restriction if desired.

    Here's a request back in 2010 to reopen the GnG marathon track (grandfathered) since there's an equivalent track for MAME with the "no excessive leeching" caveat:
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/121105-Arcade-Video-Game-Tracking-Requests?p=699586&highlight=ghosts+goblins#post699 586

    The marathon rules, ironically, date back to the Video Game Masters Tournament, and at that time the rules were dubbed "tournament rules." The one key element is that the rules of competition permitted the granting of bonus lives every 70,000 point. Since the game was basically brand new in 1985, I think the continuous granting of bonus lives wasn't a crazy proposition for a population still figuring out the game. At that time, there was only one specific "anti-leeching" scenario that was banned. I'm not clear if this is the same as the "cave leech" referenced in the MAME rules.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140123195127/http://mysite.verizon.net:80/hattg/pics/videogame/1986_VGM_TOGM.pdf

    Richard Webb won the contest with a score of 510,500, achieved on June 27, 1986. However, if you look at the grandfathered track, his score states 2004, which I understand was a bug from a database migration event at that time.

    For reference, here's the post announcing the decision to grandfather the track, based on the justification of leeching fears.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/118592-Ghosts-n-Goblins-New-Settings-Announced

    I was never a fan of grandfathering, so yes, let's get this opened up for competition again.

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    Updated 02-28-2021 at 05:49 AM by The Evener
  4. Snowflake's Avatar

    yes the rules should be changed, the programatic lock out is probably already changed (you can probably submit if you click the submit button), as barra points out the deca tracks are very simliar in that the rules themselves have the grandfathering language but we as a community (with permission from admin) have agreed to ignore those rules and accept new submissions.

    as to why were "some" tracks grandfathered, before my time, but i've read alot of the old forums, there were different reasons. In some cases it was tracks that were meant to be used just for a single tournament, where the tournament was viewed as worthy of recording and crediting, but simultaneoulsy the settings were deemed unworthy of continued play. In other cases rule issues were found and it was difficult to decide to allow or ban a tacticso the track was grandfathered until a decision could be made but a decision was never made leaving the track in limbo. Probably the strangest reason i read, is a track had very few submissions, and with refs being limited, they couldnt waste ref time on a track that so few people cared about, which struck me as odd, because if so few people submitted wouldnt that mean very little ref time? regardless it was a reason as well. also alot of emu tracks were grandfathered en mass just for being emu due to the desire to no longer allow emu on certain platforms where it was decided the games are consoles are easy to get real copies so no need for emulations.

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  5. datagod's Avatar

    Every grandfathered track was supposed to be ungrandfathered.

  6. 80sArcadeKid's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    Every grandfathered track was supposed to be ungrandfathered.

    It probably is, I didn't try to submit anything I was just curious upon reading it.

    I've been playing G'n'G a bit lately on my MiSTer FPGA and knowing there was a machine at our local barcade 'Netherworld', which is probably original, I thought maybe I would one day submit something for it.

    It's also an original PCB I'm likely to want to eventually collect as it is the other half of my childhood addiction along side Rygar. Wonderboy in Monster land comes in a close third.


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