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07-30-2021 at 02:29 AM
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The thin line of Arcade platform vs. other platforms

[Edit:] Ultimately this works out as a research failure on my part... Original text below this edit & the one at the bottom.


It's no secret that many "genuine" arcade machines are just a PC in a box hooked up to a some hardware that may be proprietary (as far back as 1999 with Hydro Thunder, for example, and very possibly much earlier with other machines). So these are tracked at TG as Arcade because that's how the machine was intended to be: in the Arcade.

Then there's the swathe of multi-game PCBs: classic arcade proprietary PCB hardware but sometimes running emulations of original arcade machines or simulations via FPGA tech. These sorts of equipment were intended for the arcade and can get tracked as such (some Multi-xxx PCB tracks exist).

Commonly available are MAME cabinets: the look and feel of the arcade but ultimately it's a PC (or other device like Raspeberry Pi) running MAME (or other emulator(s)). At TG this sort of thing is regarded as MAME and if the device can output an INP can be used to submit to the scoreboard (INP is a requirement for all MAME submissions).

Recently, there's been several iCade submissions to the Multi-XXX PCB tracks. I'm struggling to equate this to any of the above scenarios. My gut suggests this should be supported via the iOS platform: iCade is an iOS application running (typically) on iPads.

Numerous compilations have been published over the years to other platforms - Activision Anthology, Atari Classics, Midway Arcade Treasures, Namco Museum and huge numbers in varying degress of quality. Each of these is tracked under the platform the original media was intended for: Midway Arcade Treasures on GameCube disc is tracked under GameCube whereas Midway Arcade Treasures on PlayStation 2 disc is tracked under PS2... Surely iCade fits this scenario?

Midway Quicksilver II specs at System 16: http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=620&gid=1162#1162 - Hydro Thunder and Offroad Thunder arcade hardware.

412-in-1 Jamma example PCB: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32679154274.html

iCade at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICade (OEM's pages offline apparently)

[Edit:]

Update, thanks to @bensweeneyonbass

iCade 60-in-1: https://www.hollandcomputers.com/data/Images_Additional/arcade%20game%20parts/60-in-1_icade_classic_arcade_manual_online.pdf - definitely an arcade piece of kit which fits the xxx-in-1 idea of the arcade tracks.

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Comments
  1. swaggers's Avatar

    It's really just a device/joystick so in my opinion iCade shouldn't be tracked at all.

  2. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Agreed, it should not be considered as a game or a platform or a track. It is simply a controller compatible with the iPad.

  3. swaggers's Avatar

    Technically someone could make using an iCade part of the rules, but in itself it is not a platform. The game should be tracked as iOS and iCade stipulations can be made if so desired.

  4. swaggers's Avatar

    These XXX-Multi rules are just pure insanity --

    The main purpose of XXX-Multi tracks are for arcade cabinets :

    - arcade cabinets with the original PCB and ROM where the gamer play at a shaopping maill or an arcade where the gamer is not able to record the inside of the cabinet as proof that the cabinet do contain the original PCB and ROM

    - arcade cabinets with non-original PCB and ROM (clones) that play like original arcade game PCB/ROM

    - arcade cabinets with ICADE setup i.e. multi 1 in 60 & 1 in 120 ect.. cabinets

    - MAME Arcade Cabinets with proof that no playback/pre-recording of an .INP file was used but the game is played in real-time.

    - MAME Arcade Cabinets using Wolfmame


    We are putting MAME scores in Arcade because they can't submit a INP?? We are making Original PCB score in XXX just because they can't film a board?

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    Updated 07-30-2021 at 07:48 AM by swaggers
  5. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Nothing to do with anything, but this reminded me of a song I used to like...a lot.

    :D

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  6. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    iCade 60-in-1 were around long before Apple made iPhones etc. I have no idea what you guys are talking about with iPads and stuff.

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  7. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    This is the iCade board I have https://www.hollandcomputers.com/data/Images_Additional/arcade%20game%20parts/60-in-1_icade_classic_arcade_manual_online.pdf

    I was unaware of what is linked to via Wikipedia above. No that particular thing shouldn't be on Arcade platform.

  8. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by bensweeneyonbass

    iCade 60-in-1 were around long before Apple made iPhones etc. I have no idea what you guys are talking about with iPads and stuff.


    I've heard yall's music.

    I can't BELIEVE I didn't get a like out of you, Dead Milkmen and all...

    :P

    (I was actually a black T-shirt metal kid at the time, my Friends thought it was the strangest thing, me being obsessed with Beelzebubba...)

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  9. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/233389-Arcade-XXX-1-Multi-PCB-Dig-Dug-Points-(Original-PCB-Factory-Settings)-146-060-Koda-Sciuto


    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/233482-Arcade-XXX-1-Multi-PCB-Centipede-High-Score-Challenge!-(TG-Marathon-Settings)-1-Sauter-Sciuto


    The menu displayed on these submissions is a clear indicator that it's actually the original "iCade" 60-in-1 PCB. It's a PCB. Whether or not there's MAME running in there (it is) it's absolutely nothing like iPad stuff of today as described in the original post.

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  10. bensweeneyonbass's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco



    I've heard yall's music.

    I can't BELIEVE I didn't get a like out of you, Dead Milkmen and all...

    :P

    (I was actually a black T-shirt metal kid at the time, my Friends thought it was the strangest thing, me being obsessed with Beelzebubba...)


    Retroactive like applied :)

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  11. HAN's Avatar

    @Barthax Something you mentioned above got me thinking...I realized there is currently no platform to submit scores done via FPGA like the MiSTer, which supports numerous arcade "cores".

    Purist reject FPGA tech on original hardware tracks, and EMU requires an INP file which an FPGA device does not generate*.

    *yet, at least that I know of.

    What's the solution for FPGA submissions?

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  12. RedDawn's Avatar

    None of the XXX-1 submissions using Icade are using that thing you linked to, theyre all using full size cabs running the old icade hardware you will see in most all public Multi Game machines, which were around before Ipads and stuff. I dont believe the Icade being used in those submissions is using ios either, It looks like the icade your talking about and the icade being used by these submitters are two completely different things.


    https://bootleggames.fandom.com/wiki/ICade_60-in-1

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  13. PMX's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by bensweeneyonbass

    iCade 60-in-1 were around long before Apple made iPhones etc. I have no idea what you guys are talking about with iPads and stuff.

    I was going to say, every 60-in-1 boots up too the "iCade" menu. How many 60 in 1's out there, soon more than original ms pacmans in wild. Being converted everyday into "iCades". Also worth mentioning that even thought the older games around 99 are running on "pc's", they are still proprietary embedded os and nothing that the user/owner can do one thing with. I have one machine with iCade and it's original Namco reunion pcb on a switcher from riddled. I could submit a score under either xxx or arcade. I have one machine with a pandoras box , also xxx.

  14. RedDawn's Avatar

    " I could submit a score under either xxx or arcade."

    The XXX-1 track is under 'Arcade'
    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/xxx-1-multi-pcb/arcade

    Which brings me to something else, I also have a 600-1 multigame running Pandoras box.
    From my understanding these are able to be used for submissions to the XXX-1-multi-PCB track, correct?

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  15. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by bensweeneyonbass

    This is the iCade board I have https://www.hollandcomputers.com/data/Images_Additional/arcade%20game%20parts/60-in-1_icade_classic_arcade_manual_online.pdf

    I was unaware of what is linked to via Wikipedia above. No that particular thing shouldn't be on Arcade platform.


    Awesome. This is exactly the kind of information I just didn't have to understand the situation. Thanks. :D Now I understand there's two completely different products called iCade.


    I've updated the OP to reflect this piece of knowledge. :D

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    Updated 07-31-2021 at 01:01 AM by Barthax
  16. Barthax's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by HAN

    @Barthax Something you mentioned above got me thinking...I realized there is currently no platform to submit scores done via FPGA like the MiSTer, which supports numerous arcade "cores".

    Purist reject FPGA tech on original hardware tracks, and EMU requires an INP file which an FPGA device does not generate*.

    *yet, at least that I know of.

    What's the solution for FPGA submissions?

    Yeah, FPGAs, at their heart, are not emulation. It's a real piece of completely newly designed hardware performing the same actions of the original: a simulation. The JROK was added as a separate platform. Jace (at least once) mused over adding a Retron platform but nothing came of it (which would be a huge cluster-mess in the current scoreboard design as it would be platforms-within-a-platform). There was a small attempt to add "third-party" consoles to the scoreboard by using the "CLONE - "prefix instead of NTSC/PAL/EMU. Still others have floated the idea of adding tracks to the "Novelty" platform until something gets worked out. Ultimately, I don't know what the correct method should be. :(

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  17. francoisadt's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers

    These XXX-Multi rules are just pure insanity --

    The main purpose of XXX-Multi tracks are for arcade cabinets :

    - arcade cabinets with the original PCB and ROM where the gamer play at a shaopping maill or an arcade where the gamer is not able to record the inside of the cabinet as proof that the cabinet do contain the original PCB and ROM

    - arcade cabinets with non-original PCB and ROM (clones) that play like original arcade game PCB/ROM

    - arcade cabinets with ICADE setup i.e. multi 1 in 60 & 1 in 120 ect.. cabinets

    - MAME Arcade Cabinets with proof that no playback/pre-recording of an .INP file was used but the game is played in real-time.

    - MAME Arcade Cabinets using Wolfmame


    We are putting MAME scores in Arcade because they can't submit a INP?? We are making Original PCB score in XXX just because they can't film a board?

    Hi

    The rules are not for insanity. I have created the rules on purpose as such so that it can cover any sceanrio

    where one basicly play an arcade cabinet with an arcade controller with any computer technology inside.

    ICADE is not an IPAD. It is an arcade cabinet with an arcade controller but LINKED-TO an device that play the game

    to a display and have an interface with arcade controls hosted in an arcade cabinet.

    So ICAD is rightfully placed here.


    Bear in mind that - way back then when I have created the track I was new to create track/platform and rules.

    So each game under Multi-XXX should be a game listed such that it can be searchable and listed.

    So currently all the games under Multi-XXX are not listed in search or browse listings.


    Maybe TG need a tweak to there browse caatlogue function so that one can easily see those?

    Any suggestions here?






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