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Pixe Sukola
06-25-2020 at 03:03 PM
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Rounding off times for speedrun submissions

I think rounding off times to whole seconds is very antiquated and not the best way to go about measuring scores in 2020, a lot of free software is available out there to do a better job and unless specified in the rules like in this case, rounding should be optional and not mandatory.

If the best 22 Super Mario Bros players in speedrun were to join TG and submit their records for any% here, with our system of timing, 4 of them would be 1st place and the next 18 players would be 5th.


To me the use of better, free technology to do one of the most important tasks here is a no brainer, I would love to hear any arguments against it.


Comments
  1. GibGirl's Avatar

    I would agree here. With all submissions via video, it's straightforward to be able to re-time runs if necessary to get seriously accurate. There's no reason to keep rounding off to the second.

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  2. Fly's Avatar

    The easy solution is to submit to the other sites. That's unless you are competing on a track that doesn't exist there.

    You can create new tracks for what you are asking.

    Adding more accurate times here to existing lists would be weird. 10.49 seconds was rounded down to 10.00. So a 10.01 vs. 10.49 would take 2nd place with a faster time.

    Create the new tracks or go elsewhere.

    Hec

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  3. GibGirl's Avatar

    We could just embrace that Speedrun.com is for speedruns and Twin Galaxies is not.

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  4. admin staff's Avatar

    Hi all

    We can take care of the rounding situation.

    Twingalaxies is for speedruns too .

    We will correct all the historic mistakes .

    Point us to the right links, we will help in whatever way we can

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  5. swaggers's Avatar

    This should be fixed and I am all for correcting scores that can be corrected and splitting off historical scores that can not. We don't have to want to compete/replace Speedruns to want to have an accurate scoreboard. We have plenty of time based games here on TG that should be tracked more accurately.

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  6. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    The easy solution is to submit to the other sites. That's unless you are competing on a track that doesn't exist there.

    You can create new tracks for what you are asking.

    Adding more accurate times here to existing lists would be weird. 10.49 seconds was rounded down to 10.00. So a 10.01 vs. 10.49 would take 2nd place with a faster time.

    Create the new tracks or go elsewhere.

    Hec

    I absolutely disagree with you Hector, your reason to not submit more accurate times to a leaderboard whenever posible is that it would be weird?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    Create the new tracks or go elsewhere.

    Hec

    I'm sure sending players to other sites because we are anticquated and lazy to use a free software to do a better job at adjudicating scores is not the best idea to make the community grow.

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl

    We could just embrace that Speedrun.com is for speedruns and Twin Galaxies is not.

    I have never understood this kind of thinking. Speedrun does not have any technology that is not available to anybody with an internet conection. All submissions are digital and LiveSplit is as easy to use as OBS, why wouldn't we be able to use it and have accurate times? You yourself said that in your first comment.

    Every M.A.M.E. player, old and young, savy and newbie have learned to use OBS in the last couple of years, why wouldn't speedruners and adjudicators here learn to use LiveSplit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers

    This should be fixed and I am all for correcting scores that can be corrected and splitting off historical scores that can not. We don't have to want to compete/replace Speedruns to want to have an accurate scoreboard. We have plenty of time based games here on TG that should be tracked more accurately.

    I agree, I only mentioned SpeedRun because the game that started this discussion was Super Mario Bros and the competition there is so high that it clearly shows that our system is obsolete to accurately measure that kind of competition.

    Besides, let's remember that Speedrun.com players are just players, they don't belong to a site, they are just people gaming and I believe TG should review this topic for the improvement of the site and for the sake of gaming, regardless how others do it.


    Updated 06-26-2020 at 02:14 PM by Pixe Sukola
  7. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by admin staff

    Hi all

    We can take care of the rounding situation.

    Twingalaxies is for speedruns too .

    We will correct all the historic mistakes .

    Point us to the right links, we will help in whatever way we can

    Thanks a lot admin staff, I wasn't talking about any specific errors that need to be corrected, I provided this link and the discussion there, was the rounding off. But there is no issue anymore, the player has already submitted a new score that follows said track's rules.

    What I'm saying is that some members seem to think that the rounding off of a time-based score is mandatory, that topic has brought some issues particularly on this track

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/crossy-road/ios/fastest-to-100-hops/page/1?ref=fbshare

    and more specifically to this score

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/216023

    Rounding off to whole seconds in short scores like this where a run is usually around 20 seconds invalidates most of the difference in skill between players and is completely unnecesary.

    What I'm proposing is:

    Submitting in whole seconds should be completely optional to players that don't want to do a more accurate measure in tenths, hundredths or milliseconds and the rounding should always go to the NEXT second and not just to the nearest like has been suggested by other members.

    Example: a time like 9.1 seconds can only be submitted as a 10.0 and never as a 9.0, no matter how close it is.

    Some members have suggested that

    9.01 to 9.49 should be submmited as 9.

    9.51 to 9.99 should be submitted as 10

    which I think is the wrong way to measure a score and there is absolutely no reason to do it like that in 2020.


    ThanksSincerelyFranny thanked this post
    Updated 06-26-2020 at 02:23 PM by Pixe Sukola
  8. GibGirl's Avatar

    (never mind, reminding myself that I want to try and just worry about submitting scores and stay out of everything else)

    ThanksPixe Sukola thanked this post
    Updated 06-26-2020 at 02:36 PM by GibGirl
  9. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl


    This isn't an argument based on technology. It's based on culture. TG failed miserably to accommodate speedrunning when it started, and resulted in other sites filling that need. I feel the culture here has improved, but not nearly enough to adjust to the reality of what speedrunning is now.

    Culture not good enough to adjust to reality sounds like a deep problem, but I think some of us can manage to use simple timing software to adress the problem and make progress little by little.


    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl


    And with the existence of speedrun.com... I ask what reason people see in having TG duplicate that tracking, but in a manner that's not as good, especially when most of it is already being done elsewhere?

    Duplicate? Like Speedrun has a trademark on accuracy? that's their style?

    The reason I see in being more accurate is because is fair and better for the players, the leaderboard and the site.

  10. Pixe Sukola's Avatar

    Just forget I mentioned Speedrun.

    Can we improve the way we time our scores here in Twin Galaxies? It would be easy, free and an overall improvement to the site.

  11. Fly's Avatar

    A 10.99 WAS counted as 10 flat per TG rules. How do I know? I've been here since 1998 and I used to speedrun here. Rules still say WHOLE SECONDS for some games. Make new tracks if you want to see more accurate times. Mixing would be a mess which I would find funny and amusing or weird, which I like. But most wont like it.

    BTW, that SMB submission was 19:23 by the whole seconds rule that the early competitors used. Yes it's odd, but that's how it was.

    Fly

  12. Fly's Avatar

    Found this at SDA about TG rules:

    This run was done several years after the last new Twin Galaxies record and the community now mostly follows SDA's rules. Andrewg went back to get a perfect run under Twin Galaxies' ruleset, because the competition started there. Andrewg's timing of the run yielded 5:06.99, which if it was accurate would make it an unbeatable 5:06 under the old standard of always rounding down, but since then Twin Galaxies changed their method to rounding to the nearest second (which would also affect other runs such as Scott Kessler's first 5:08, which would be 5:09 instead, but it does not seem like Twin Galaxies will do retimings). A 5:06 would be possible with a near-perfect run.



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