• Ikari Warriors World Record Confusion

    Hello, this is old topic and confusions about high score are maybe cleared by now, but ...

    I played this game a lot when I was a kid and it was a hard game. I was wondering is it possible to beat it with one coin or even without losing a life. Youtube is full of videos of old arcade games beaten with one coin, but I couldn't find IKARI there. At the same time, thanks to emulators, I learned to play game pretty good myself and found that it's not so hard to beat game when you learn it. Eventually I found two videos on youtube where uploaders beat game with no life lose; one video is played on emulator (MAME), second video is played on original cabinet. For this topic it is interesting the first video:



    In the comments, there is exchange of opinions by the uploader and youtuber about high scores in this game. Person that comments game explains how to achieve scores above 1.7 million points. He even uploaded image of his last attempt where he scored 1 699 500 points. He claims that if you are willing to sacrifice life's you can reach score above 1.7M.

    I have never vent for high score run, but his arguments sounds true. And after I believed that this game was impossible to be beaten with one coin and when I learn it to beat it myself, now I believe that there are people that can achieve such high scores.


    haggar.
    Ikari Warriors World Record Confusion gaknar
    8
    1. RTM's Avatar
      RTM -
      Hello gaknar:

      I can answer that one as I was the chief referee for TG at the time the 1.799M was yanked.

      David Nelson, one of our senior referees, demonstrated to me how scores within a certain range of points were not possible.

      -> On the low-end, he demonstrated that to reach the end of the game you likely will have a minimum score of a certain amount prior to the 1M bonus...can't remember the exact value but for sake of argument let's say it was 350K

      -> On the high-end, without ultra-leeching or cheating tactics, there was a likely maximum range that players would attain prior to the 1M bonus...again, can't remember the value but let's say for sake of argument that this would/could be 600K

      Therefore, scores above 600K and simultaneously less than 1.350M were potentially problematic, as would be scores over 1.600M, using the above samples.

      Stan's score of 1.799M implied a finishing score of nearly 800K pre-bonus which was at the time unrealistic, and therefore the score was put into hiatus status. Keep in mind that Stan ALSO has a heavily scrutinized and discussed score of 187K on "Marble Madness which was potentially done using a different ROMset that former TG senior referee Mark Longridge proved could explain the score differential on that title as compared to other contender scores.

      Putting 2+2 together, in accordance with one of Walter's earliest stated rules on score challenges, both scores were therefore relegated to hiatus mode.

      This infuriated some gamers and naysayers ho believed that scores should remain until completely disproven/debunked, but TG opted to take the conservative approach and leave only plausible scores behind to our best effort possible.

      Same logic, BTW, was applied to a ridiculously high score on "Lunar Lander" and many other classic titles.

      Although debates have gone on for years about the policy of "hiatus status" of improbable scores, this was why the "Ikari Warrior" score was removed from visibility within the TG database. Consult the 1st TG Book of Records for the statute on removing contested scores from all visible media to see just to be sure.
    1. gaknar's Avatar
      gaknar -
      Hi Robert, thanks for the explanation! I'm glad that there's still someone around who knows the details. It's a bummer that certain games will always be in question like this but I suppose there isn't much that can be done about it.
    1. RTM's Avatar
      RTM -
      Hi gaknar:

      There was another game that David said also had that million point bonus problem, where scores above and below a certain range, in a single credit complete game, were likely not possible. It was either "Heavy Guerilla" or "Heavy Barrel", I forget which.

      I'd ask, as you are an accomplished Ikari player, what do you feel are the plausible minimum and maximum scores on the title ?
    1. gaknar's Avatar
      gaknar -
      I bet it was Guerilla War, as that game is very similar to Ikari, practically a remake. Heavy Barrel is also similar though.

      As far as minimum and maximum scores, it's tough to say. When I was practicing for my run, I made it my goal to set the high score without losing any lives (the score I eventually submitted had a single death at the very end, so I never quite accomplished that goal). This leaves a lot of room for improvement over my score for anyone who would want to use up their lives point leeching (it's also actually easier to beat the game without dying because you can hang on to the best power ups throughout the game). That being said, given the time limit per life, the small amount of ammunition per life, the very small amount of points given for leech killing soldiers (100-300 points per), and the very slow spawn of enemy soldiers at leech points, I don't think there is much of an opportunity to dramatically improve upon my score. If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that a score of 500,000 in this game would be akin to the 1 million point barrier in Donkey Kong. It's probably possible to reach and exceed this score, but doing so would require complete mastery of the game, and I personally don't think it's possible to exceed this score by much more than 10% at the very most. Now I say this knowing that there are probably secrets within the game that I don't know about that could be used to far exceed a score of 500,000. Since my score got supplanted I've messed around extensively to see if there was some sort of exploit that could be used to disable or get around the time limit per player, but I haven't been able to find anything. And even if there is such an exploit, the player is still ammunition limited. Again, I say all this fully acknowledging that there probably are techniques in this game that I am not aware of.

      As far as a minimum score, I hadn't even considered that question. I could see people doing speed runs where they dodge every single enemy in the game, stopping only when they come to choke points that require them to kill all the soldiers on screen before moving on. This actually seems like a larger potential challenge than setting a max score, with much more opportunity for creative thinking and strategy than setting a high score. My initial completions of the game, where I was just barely making it by the seat of my pants, resulted in scores around 360,000. Again, if I had to guess, I'd say that maybe 300,000 might be possible, but I'm really only guessing here.
    1. RTM's Avatar
      RTM -
      Hello gaknar:

      So it is a fair preliminary assessment that scores between 500K-1.3M are in the questionable range as are scores over 1.5M based on your 300K minimum and 500K maximum preliminary assessment.

      I'd say that if a TG staffer/referee were to encounter, then a submission of (example) 505K, 510K, etc, the higher it gets the more questionable it becomes, and so forth. And for 1M+ scores, the further under 1.3M or over 1.5M it gets, same applies.

      Knowledge like this is awesome for TG to have as "meta data" for their referees to assist with their adjudication process.
    1. gaknar's Avatar
      gaknar -
      Hello gaknar:

      So it is a fair preliminary assessment that scores between 500K-1.3M are in the questionable range as are scores over 1.5M based on your 300K minimum and 500K maximum preliminary assessment.

      I'd say that if a TG staffer/referee were to encounter, then a submission of (example) 505K, 510K, etc, the higher it gets the more questionable it becomes, and so forth. And for 1M+ scores, the further under 1.3M or over 1.5M it gets, same applies.

      Knowledge like this is awesome for TG to have as "meta data" for their referees to assist with their adjudication process.
      Yes all of my estimates were done disregarding the 1 million point bonus, so I agree with your extrapolations here.
    1. haggar's Avatar
      haggar -
      Hello, this is old topic and confusions about high score are maybe cleared by now, but ...

      I played this game a lot when I was a kid and it was a hard game. I was wondering is it possible to beat it with one coin or even without losing a life. Youtube is full of videos of old arcade games beaten with one coin, but I couldn't find IKARI there. At the same time, thanks to emulators, I learned to play game pretty good myself and found that it's not so hard to beat game when you learn it. Eventually I found two videos on youtube where uploaders beat game with no life lose; one video is played on emulator (MAME), second video is played on original cabinet. For this topic it is interesting the first video:



      In the comments, there is exchange of opinions by the uploader and youtuber about high scores in this game. Person that comments game explains how to achieve scores above 1.7 million points. He even uploaded image of his last attempt where he scored 1 699 500 points. He claims that if you are willing to sacrifice life's you can reach score above 1.7M.

      I have never vent for high score run, but his arguments sounds true. And after I believed that this game was impossible to be beaten with one coin and when I learn it to beat it myself, now I believe that there are people that can achieve such high scores.


      haggar.
    1. gaknar's Avatar
      gaknar -
      Thanks for posting that. I might get in touch with that guy who claims to have gotten close to 1.7 million. It doesn't make sense to me. You only get a couple minutes to stand in the same spot and kill the infinitely spawning soldiers. As the other commentor said it would take thousands of kills to reach scores that high. Even if you burn 4 or 5 guys doing it there just isn't enough ammo or time available.

      For the record I died once during my run and it wasn't until the very end. The game is a lot easier when you hang on to your power ups so there's certainly room for improvement over my score. The current record just seems out of reach to me though.
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