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datagod
10-12-2019 at 07:14 PM
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Why do people cheat?

Who was the fastest sprinter in 1988? Canada's Ben Johnson. At the Sumer Olympics in Seoul he ran 100m in 9.79 seconds, breaking the previous record. Sadly for Johnson and Canada he was later found guilty of cheating via steroids and was stripped of his records. Further investigation found that many of the runners competing also abused steroids. It was claimed they were simply trying to keep up with the competition.


Image result for blood dope


But when everyone cheats, can anyone really be called a winner? Is it really something to be proud of to be the best cheater?

These athletes spend their lives training their bodies for competition. They sacrifice friends, family, income. They put it all on the line for the glory of getting that top spot, for breaking those records. There is more to it of course. A top athlete can score all sorts of post olympic deals including sponsorships, movie and TV spots. Modelling, posters, books deals. You name it. They are famous and rightfully so.

But they still cheated. Some take a gamble and win. Some lose. Ben Johnson lost big time. He let his country down and paid the price. We sent him to Subarctica where he now works in the IT department operating the help desk phone. Just kidding. I don't konw what happened to him. But that is the point. He vanished from fandom, only to be remembered as a villain, a cheater that got caught!

Olympics are high stakes. You might understand why somebody would be lured by the potential payoff of using enhancement boosting drugs, blood doping (storing your blood in advance, then re-injecting it before the event to give yourself more oxygen capacity).

Image result for vhs splicing


Why would somebody cheat at video games though? What are the stakes? Bragging rights? You get to be in top spot of ESI on Twin Galaxies? I don't see too many TV deals or books being written about retro gamers. Sure there are documentaries, and a few hundred bucks thrown around here and there.


Is it really worth it though? I think it is shameful and such a disgrace to what should be a fun hobby. We shouldn't have to worry about splicers, corrupt referees, fake scores, etc. Are people's lives really so devoid of meaning that they feel good about having fake high scores?

I can understand why Ben Johnson took steroids. It was a way to win a HUGE prize and to stay competitive with the other cheaters. But he didn't just update a score. His body actually ran that race. He abused his body yes, he broke the rules yes, he cheated yes! But he still ran the race. He won. He did it.

He didn't fake the run. He didn't say he did it privately. The world was watching. The world saw him do it. The world also punished him.

Twin Galaxies, take the gloves off. Purge the cheaters. Clean up the score board.


Beware, cheaters. We are coming for you!


Image result for gamer crying

Image result for zelda crying



Comments
  1. Joonas's Avatar

    The last I heard of "Big Ben" was that he is living a quiet life in his mom's basement in Canada. And yes, most if not all the runners in that 100m final were using illegal drugs. The problem for Ben was that he got injured near the games so he decided to take a risk and use steroids to heal and get in shape faster. Normally he would have cut off the "cycle" with enough time before the competition, and nothing would have been detected. We got to remember that in 1980's testing was only done during the events.

    Why people cheat? Well the number 1 reason is financial gain; after that it's about ego trip to be able to claim to be better than anyone else. Often the cheaters are people who have given up on the "morals" of the competition, mainly cause they think that everyone else is cheating, so why wouldn't I? That's exactly how Ben Johnson got into doping, he wasn't using early in his career, but quickly with his coach noticed what was the name of the game.

    I got no sympathy for what Ben did and he was rightfully caught (lost all of his money in the years to come too); but what I do got sympathy for is that he has to endure the hypocrisy of people like Carl Lewis, who himself was atleast as guilty as Ben.

    To stay on topic, I think cleaning up the scoreboard at TG is something that we all want!

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  2. Barthax's Avatar

    I think the main reason people cheat is because there isn't an avenue for them to succeed at what they excel at. If there was a "doping allowed 100m" event I dare say the WR would be subsequently held in high regard as it would likely far exceed that of the "natural 100m". Proving "being clean" gets tougher over time even for those that are genuinely clean: a cough or other mild infection with "plain medication" could trip the tests.

    With video games there's not a straight line - similar to "being clean" as an athlete with a cough. We have rules for some games on the scoreboards which permit gamers to utilise cheats. Some of these unlock a certain feature which is only available if the cheat is used (Wacky Races on DC to unlock the reverse tracks, springs to mind). Other things, like using a cheat to unlock everything in a game may get used - a quick "catch up" code to restore balance vs. the competition.

    Then there's games with a grind. I'm currently grinding away at Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LotB) and Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia (OpOmnia) (both on Android). LotB has built in automation to alleviate the grind: I'm roughly 300 hours of game play in and I've reached a point where I'd consider my team options are "average" in the game. I'm at least several thousand hours away from having anything approaching a "superb" team in this game. OpOmnia has only automation built into the battle - the player has to manually get the game to the battle, however. Less overall time has to be put into OpOmnia for level up the characters but the human has to be on-hand to guide the game to the automation.

    I already use Tasker for various pieces of automation on the phone so why not use it for the grind too: there's only about 10 inputs needed for OpOmnia to get that game up to the automation level of LotB and I have a spare phone. I've put more brain power into automating OpOmnia than it would take to manually grind the same amount. Is this cheating? I'm personally not playing the game, so I could see why someone else might think so (I don't think that). However, with real money I could instead just purchase the same: that's neither cheating nor playing.

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  3. datagod's Avatar

    People who cheated at Twin Galaxies by entering their own score, having a friend or their wife enter a score etc....those people....what is in it for them? They didn't actually play the game. They didn't take uppers to keep playing a marathon, they didn't take advantage of something that was against the rules. They simply lied.

    Plenty of scores have been proven to be impossible. Scores were self entered. What is in it for these people? Why lie about a video game? Fame and fortune? Can't remember the last time I saw certain disgraced cheaters in a movie or on a cereal box (the dude who spliced Mike Tyson Punchout).

    I guess they want what little fame and glory they can get. Kind of a waste of their life in my opinion.

  4. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Still have to prove they did it.

    It doesn't matter how or why they cheated. Everyone will have an opinion of them. Some people have robbed banks because they couldn't pay medical bills. Is it right? No, but I completely understand the reason behind it. I don't look so bad on that person as I would someone just doing it because they are greedy. Those athletes that use steroids do it for all kinds of reasons. Ego, financial gain, PRESSURE to win by their peers, age. Same applies here.

    You clearly hate cheaters, so the reason behind it is irrelevant. You feeling the need to write this article isn't necessary IMO when you can use the dispute system to do it :P

    You can make this point when it comes to religion, politics, financial decisions, parenting. Having an edge to make life easier is sometimes to good pass up. We have all taken that shortcut somewhere in life. However the results may vary.

  5. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    Still have to prove they did it.

    I'm pretty sure I speak only for myself, and indeed might just be the smallest of a small minority with such a philosophy, but it is a sad state of affairs when the environment of an official competition body whose one job is to keep track of the results of performances is one where the performer doesn't have to prove the result of their performance at all *and* the onus is on everyone else to have to prove they didn't achieve the result when there are rational reasons for skepticism ... Pre-TGSAP, naturally.

    Compounding the issue is a history of blatant cheating going unrecognized and/or inactioned for years, if not decades, if at all.

    What surprises me is how many others are surprised of the skepticism when someone, for example, points to a score verified "by Referee", "DVD", "Video", "Photograph", etc.

    As for me, a score has to be proven for me to believe it, notwithstanding the impracticality of submitting such proof 10, 20, 30 years after-the-fact, whether that score is the "record" or that score wouldn't even gain a spot in the top 100.

    I would think that if it is important enough for one to want the benefit of the attention, notoriety, and other benefits of being the top dog on a game (how much or insignificant such benefits are), then I'd think it would be important enough to defend their achievement when someone expresses skepticism, no?

    If someone were to challenge the veracity of any single one of my scores, #1 spot or otherwise, I'd play the damned game again, likely beating my original score, if for no other reason than to shove it in the face of any doubters. My response would be an emotion-based one, and one that I believe is generally inherent in those who compete ... so I'm just wondering why I see several people who compete, yet, express no interest in shutting the big mouths of their doubters, turning their doubters into embarrassing, blubbering fools. As for me, I'd jump at such a opportunity.

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  6. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    You feeling the need to write this article isn't necessary IMO when you can use the dispute system to do it :P

    Let's assume there is a score on the leaderboards that was, in fact, never accomplished by the person being credited for the accomplishment. Let's also assume the score was "verified by referee" back in 1984. How would the dispute system as it currently stands remedy such a situation? It has been shown that such a score will not be removed at all ... because "you can't prove they didn't get the score." IMHO, while the current dispute system is great, it can only address certain scenarios and remove only certain fake scores, not all of them, so the "use the dispute system" isn't always the correct remedy ... I'm not saying I know what is, just saying that in certain circumstances, I certainly know what isn't.

  7. datagod's Avatar

    I don't hate cheaters. Hate is a strong word. I hate the act of cheating. I can have pity for somebody who breaks the law to "feed their family" but nobody is feeding their kids from a lucrative career of being top spot on TG ESI leaderboards.

    People who lie about getting a score on here at Twin Galaxies are losers pure and simple. They are pretending to be good at a video game. Think about that. They are not winning a sprint because they enhanced their own muscles. They aren't beating chess masters because they hacked their own brain. They are simply saying "Yeah, I finished that game in X seconds" or "Yeah I got that high score" even though the score they listed came out of a misprint in the manual (Yancey!), or the score has proven to be impossible.

    These people seemed to have been in a competition to see who could simply get the "most world records".



  8. Marcade's Avatar

    Cheaters Justice: I say we saw off their gaming hand!

    (Then they can never cheat here again)

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  9. thegamer1185's Avatar

    I was simply pointing out instead of making a thread about cheating, just start a dispute on whatever score/scores he is referring too, haha. The problem is most scores in the database pre-TGSAP weren't even submitted to TG but rather copied from an article somewhere else. The other major issue is that lots of those people aren't even active anymore to defend their scores. Can you imagine if TG pulled every score from Nintendo Power magazines? What a CF that would have added on top of what was already done.

    The thing with simply replaying a score and beating it still doesn't make the score that is being questioned any less questionable if they feel something was done illegally. What if you did something illegal in your score that is questioned? Does you beating that score legitimately remedy that? No it doesn't. Insert Billy Mitchell and Donkey Kong here. I completely agree with you that I would do the exact same thing you stated about replaying a score, and have. When I was called out for changing my controller settings and using a cheated ROM on NBA Jam for the Game Boy, man I was pissed. Guess who has the high score....THIS GUY (I'd point both my thumbs towards myself but I need them to type). Turns out, everything I did was legit from the start (duh), but I agree, when he implied I was "cheating" I was really pissed and definitely made him eat his own words because he ultimately couldn't beat my score. I did however disprove everything he said I was doing wrong so me simply beating my score didn't "prove" my first submission wasn't cheated. It was the evidence I provided regarding how he was wrong that disproved his claims, not my replayed score.

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  10. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    I don't hate cheaters. Hate is a strong word. I hate the act of cheating. I can have pity for somebody who breaks the law to "feed their family" but nobody is feeding their kids from a lucrative career of being top spot on TG ESI leaderboards.

    People who lie about getting a score on here at Twin Galaxies are losers pure and simple. They are pretending to be good at a video game. Think about that. They are not winning a sprint because they enhanced their own muscles. They aren't beating chess masters because they hacked their own brain. They are simply saying "Yeah, I finished that game in X seconds" or "Yeah I got that high score" even though the score they listed came out of a misprint in the manual (Yancey!), or the score has proven to be impossible.

    These people seemed to have been in a competition to see who could simply get the "most world records".



    So are you going to start mentioning names or are we supposed to just assume it's the same group of people you are actively attacking on a regular basis? Because I could take your "competition for most world records" comment to mean Andrew Mee, Matthew Felix, and Rodrigo Lopez and that seems unfair to two of them (I know you are fingering Rodrigo with your statement). Is there an issue with them competing for the most scores? What is wrong with people trying to get the most records? I know people have been claiming Rodrigo has cheated some scores, does that mean Andrew and Matthew are lumped into that as well?

    See what I mean? You are making statements but are being so vague with them that it could actually include people you aren't meaning to include. So who are you talking about on here so we have some context? Otherwise is a really broad statement that can include many others.

    Why does enhancing ones muscles make it different than someone lying about achieving a gaming score? They are both lying. Neither is better or worse than the other. They are both lies. You needed drugs to enhance your abilities that you wouldn't normally achieve without them. Anything you accomplish using them is "lying" to what your true natural abilities really are. So those people are also losers, pure and simple. Cheating is cheating. No more and no less.

  11. datagod's Avatar

    You can't be a normal average human and win an olympic event by simply using drugs. Aint gonna happen. You have to have monstrously good genetics to begin with and an extremely focused lifestyle.

    Lying about a speed run? Easy. Just have your old pal referee say you did it, then claim if anyone needs proof you have a backup on a VHS tape that they can see any time. But then don't actually show it when people demand, even if a dispute is open.

    See what I am getting at?

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  12. Garrett Holland's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    I was simply pointing out instead of making a thread about cheating, just start a dispute on whatever score/scores he is referring too, haha.

    I get it, and agree to an extent, however, it appears as if this particular post was addressing the larger picture and a general observation of the existential environment, merely using a currently disputed record as an example. I could be wrong, though, as I am frequently ;-) Just ask my wife.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    The thing with simply replaying a score and beating it still doesn't make the score that is being questioned any less questionable if they feel something was done illegally.
    I agree 100%, however, nothing says "STFU" like having someone accuse you of not being able to achieve a result on a game and then not only providing proof to the contrary, but said proof demonstrates a completely legitimate score, whether or not the suspicions about the prior score included them not being performed legitimately or otherwise. While it may not directly remove all doubts about the prior score, it certainly is a mitigator (<-- is that even a word?), and effectively renders the previous score moot, anyway. At least that's how I see it.
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    Updated 10-13-2019 at 01:28 PM by Garrett Holland
  13. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    You can't be a normal average human and win an olympic event by simply using drugs. Aint gonna happen. You have to have monstrously good genetics to begin with and an extremely focused lifestyle.

    Lying about a speed run? Easy. Just have your old pal referee say you did it, then claim if anyone needs proof you have a backup on a VHS tape that they can see any time. But then don't actually show it when people demand, even if a dispute is open.

    See what I am getting at?

    So who are you talking about? And no, I don't see what you are getting at because nothing you have said has any proof...also like the score you are talking about ;) I know what you are saying. I get it. But you know nothing will/can be changed because of TG's stance on a score being in the database. No matter how what was done, that Legend of Zelda run...I mean that speed run you are referring to has already been beaten by a lot. Just not sure it's even worth your time.

  14. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett Holland


    I get it, and agree to an extent, however, it appears as if this particular post was addressing the larger picture and a general observation of the existential environment, merely using a currently disputed record as an example. I could be wrong, though, as I am frequently ;-) Just ask my wife.



    I agree 100%, however, nothing says "STFU" like having someone accuse you of not being able to achieve a result on a game and then not only providing proof to the contrary, but said proof demonstrates a completely legitimate score, whether or not the suspicions about the prior score included them not being performed legitimately or otherwise. While it may not directly remove all doubts about the prior score, it certainly is a mitigator (<-- is that even a word?), and effectively renders the previous score moot, anyway. At least that's how I see it.

    While your new score proves you have the skill to do it, the fact you did something sinister in your previous score can't be overlooked. I think we are agreeing on all accounts, I'm just making sure to cover that base of "You clearly have the ability to do it now, but back then I don't think you did and you did something you weren't supposed to do". It's that "I'd do anything to get the score back then but now I'm a changed man" that is the issue. Once that trust is gone, it's gone. Not saying they can't be trusted again I suppose, but the doubt will always be there.

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  15. Marco1019's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Joonas

    The last I heard of "Big Ben" was that he is living a quiet life in his mom's basement in Canada. And yes, most if not all the runners in that 100m final were using illegal drugs. The problem for Ben was that he got injured near the games so he decided to take a risk and use steroids to heal and get in shape faster. Normally he would have cut off the "cycle" with enough time before the competition, and nothing would have been detected. We got to remember that in 1980's testing was only done during the events.

    Why people cheat? Well the number 1 reason is financial gain; after that it's about ego trip to be able to claim to be better than anyone else. Often the cheaters are people who have given up on the "morals" of the competition, mainly cause they think that everyone else is cheating, so why wouldn't I? That's exactly how Ben Johnson got into doping, he wasn't using early in his career, but quickly with his coach noticed what was the name of the game.

    I got no sympathy for what Ben did and he was rightfully caught (lost all of his money in the years to come too); but what I do got sympathy for is that he has to endure the hypocrisy of people like Carl Lewis, who himself was at least as guilty as Ben.

    To stay on topic, I think cleaning up the scoreboard at TG is something that we all want!


    Off-topic: For those who are unfamiliar with the story which @datagod wrote about at the top of his post, ESPN aired a documentary called "9.79*" (as part of their 30 For 30 documentary series) which covered this race and those involved:


    http://www.espn.com/30for30/film/_/page/9.79


    (IIRC, the one athlete who walked away from this scot-free was the Brazilian sprinter, Robson Caetano. Hell, he went back to Brazil & was shown on the beach at the tail end of the documentary.)


    (Also, IIRC, SI had a profile photo of Ben Johnson from that particular race. His tricep was abnormally huge.)

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  16. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by fonzy_420
    I think datagod is awesome.

    Thanks for being antisocial!

  17. fonzy_420's Avatar

    You can delete it all you want, I posted it on my own Wall with you @datagod <3


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  18. Marcade's Avatar

    Its time for FAMILY FEUD... top 5 answers on the board...

    Why do people cheat?


    1) Because they suck at Video games. Therefore, the only way to be on top, is to cheat.

    2) To see if they can get away with it.

    3) The devil made them do it.

    4) Because they have a larger EGO than life itself. They feel special, therefore, dont have to follow the proper rules like everyone else.

    5) Because in the past, they were cheated on. Revenge!

  19. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod


    Thanks for being antisocial!

    Someone comments to you and they are anti-social? You then delete said comment and say the person is antisocial? Yet you deleted the comment of his response. You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means. The fact that people are answering you does not make them antisocial, it's quite the opposite.

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  20. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    Someone comments to you and they are anti-social? You then delete said comment and say the person is antisocial? Yet you deleted the comment of his response. You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means. The fact that people are answering you does not make them antisocial, it's quite the opposite.


    You might not have been around at the time of the huge "Krysti vs Datagod" thread (she posted 300+ comments accusing me of various things, it lead to a 30 day tribunalization)

    "Thanks for being anti-social!" is a bit of an inside joke. It is the catch phrase of a fictional character Blackmail Betty on the show Antisocial.

    https://www.facebook.com/WeAreAntiSocial/


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