datagod's Feed

datagod
11-22-2019 at 11:34 PM
30 Comments
Rate this Entry

Twin Galaxies: A history

My friend MemeTroll has been investigating Twin Galaxies's history and put together a short video of his findings. It is very interesting, especially the part about Websignia.

Likesstarcrytas, Joonas, RaGe, bTokin liked this post
Comments
  1. Joonas's Avatar

    So TG is worth 70k?

  2. Jace Hall's Avatar

    LOL. I wish that was the price!

    Funny thing is that people are going to watch that video and think that was the price. Not that it matters really. Whatevs :) Still an interesting point of view and not bad considering that he had to try to figure all this out on his own from the "outside."

    For what it is worth he could have just asked me about some of this stuff, nothing to hide here - but no one ever contacted me!

    I'm interested in hearing what the people mentioned have to say. Popcorn is ready.

    Thanksdatagod thanked this post
    LikesSnowflake, starcrytas, Marcade, Emayl, datagod and 1 others liked this post
    Updated 11-23-2019 at 03:01 AM by Jace Hall
  3. bTokin's Avatar

    are we still running off websignia's coding?

  4. Marcade's Avatar

    9 plus minutes of head shaking, I will never get back.

    If i had a dime for every "bottom feeding, drama seeking" YouTuber, who "claim" to have conducted proper research, on things they actually know less than half of WHAT THEY THINK they know, then my own "dime collection" WOULD be 70k!


    LikesSnowflake, Barthax liked this post
  5. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall

    LOL. I wish that was the price! For what it is worth he could have just asked me.



    OK. Here goes. How much did you pay Walter? ;)


    john


    .

    Thanksdatagod, Ragequit thanked this post
  6. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark



    OK. Here goes. How much did you pay Walter? ;)


    john


    .

    ThanksMarcade thanked this post
    LikesbTokin, Marcade, datagod, Blackflag82, lexmark liked this post
  7. Fly's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall

    I'm interested in hearing what the people mentioned have to say. Popcorn is ready.

    Thanksdatagod thanked this post
    LikesMarcade, datagod, Snowflake, Jace Hall, HugDD and 3 others liked this post
  8. datagod's Avatar
    what i find most interesting is how the wayback section 8 machine makes it look like Peterson is a cybersquatter. I know at one time he had Rudyferretti.com. why waste money on cybersquatting that crap.
    LikesMarcade liked this post
  9. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark



    OK. Here goes. How much did you pay Walter? ;)


    john


    .

    Short version of the story, I know all the hyper details and drama surround all these pieces but Im not writing a book right now -

    When Pete Bouvier "bought" TG from Walter, it was for $200,000.

    Pete had 18 months or so to pay Walter the money.

    In order for Walter to sell to Pete B, he needed to get all the "shares" he "promised" back from the various people he had historically made promises to. So he promised those people that they would partake in the money that Pete was supposed to eventually pay.

    I'm not sure if Walter actually distributed shares that he actually needed to get back, or if he just promised them, so they were kind of owned "virtually" by those people. Bottom line is that Pete was contractually assigned complete ownership.

    Anyway those 18 months came and went without Pete B making any payment on the contract and the ownership technically reverted to Walter around late 2009 / early 2010 or so but Walter either forgot, didn't want to run TG or just kept hoping that Pete would pay him eventually. I don't know. Bottom line is Walter didn't say/do anything in regard to the contract obligations that I am aware of.

    Then in 2012, Pete unexpectedly "sold" TG to Jourdan Adler (with Richie partnered in facilitating) - this transaction took place without any real paperwork or significant documentation. Jourdan gave Pete a check for 35K and took the physical server computers home, and Pete transferred the TG domain to Jourdan. That's it.

    TG was completely off-line at this point.

    Eventually TG partially came back online after a company that Jourdan hired (Websignia) did all the heavy lifting required to make it happen.

    Skipping over all the details of Websignia/Adler/Richie drama eventually it becomes clear to Jourdan that he was no longer interested in owning Twin Galaxies.

    Around this time (and having no knowledge of any of the above) I just happened to be interested in licensing Twin Galaxies' brand for a live world record show I was thinking about putting on a 24/7 twitch channel I was working on called 1337LoungeLive - and I had been in touch with Jourdan Adler for that discussion - which was not getting anywhere because of all the drama that Jourdan was having in relation to Twin Galaxies behind the scenes.

    Anyway, one day during an update discussion with Jourdan (trying to find out where we were on the license idea) Jourdan asked me if I wanted to buy TG from him (as he was ready to just bury it forever) as he explained to me that he felt the people who had encouraged him to buy it in the first place had misled him in various ways.

    In any case, I said that I was interested and that began a whole new adventure that eventually reveals Jourdan could not have purchased TG from Pete, because Pete didn't actually own it to sell. Walter's was the owner the entire time because the 18 months on Pete's contract expired and rights had reverted back to Walter.

    All this became clear to me as I tried to buy TG from Jourdan, because his lawyer could not produce chain-of-ownership documentation for my lawyers to complete a legal transaction. So I had to painstakingly chase everything down, all the way back to the very beginning of the first TG entity ever legally founded, in order to understand what rights existed and where they all were, etc.

    Anyway, part of cleaning up the entire ownership that spanned a 30 year history was to purchase all the rights that Walter still held (whether he knew it or not) and so my conversation with him revolved around understanding that situation, what Walter's previous obligations were, etc.

    I realized that in order for it to be a clean and community positive transfer, and for Walter to meet whatever promises he historically made, AND for there to be a chance for TG to overall move in a positive direction (because some of the people Walter made promises to were historical refs and etc.), I decided to fulfill Pete Bouvier's previous purchase obligation of $200,000 and live up to the payment promise he made but totally failed to deliver on.

    It is important to keep in mind that at this time TG was non-functional, the ownership rights were a mess, the community was incredibly self-destructive and the sheer amount of work that was needed to be done was enormous to restore the full database (Websignia had only done a portion - there still were the forum data, etc.)

    I had to make the decision to spend this money, with the full knowledge of the above - arguably "significantly overpaying" based on the current state of the organization. I did it anyway with zero regrets.

    For me, it was unacceptable to me that Twin Galaxies was on the verge of extinction. Whether or not others fully realize it, Twin Galaxies is a very important part of the video game universe. It's one of the very few things to historically exist independently from any specific video game or game publisher that speaks to our culture and history and importance of the activity. It matters, and the people, history and community to populate Twin Galaxies matter too.

    I have made my whole life around the validity of the activity of playing video games and participating in its culture. I was not going to let something that represents that just die without it ever having a true opportunity to fulfill its potential.

    So I stepped in.

    The $70,000 that you see "reported on" was just the first payment. That was years ago. The entire $200,000 has been paid. I don't know what Walter did with the money. I hope he fulfilled whatever obligations he had.

    Over the years, I've seen various people claim to know the details of the whole TG ownership thing. They don't. They can't. At best they only know a part of what was a fairly complicated situation. I appreciate that people are interested in the story of it all, and when I see videos like the one above I'm actually impressed with some of the bits and pieces of information that they are able to logically deduce - some of it is quite correct - but a lot of it isn't. That being said, it still remains interesting to watch, so kudos to Meme Troll for the hard work and compelling video.

    Perhaps one day, I'll write a book or do a live stream or something to explain the history, but for now this is all I got. Hope it helps!






    Updated 11-23-2019 at 01:48 PM by Jace Hall
  10. RTM's Avatar

    Jace Hall said - "I don't know what Walter did with the money. I hope he fulfilled whatever obligations he had. "

    RTM REPLY - around late Dec/14 I received E-MAILs from Joel West on behalf of Walter which stated that Walter wanted to repay his promises made years earlier BUT there were caveats...

    -> No amount mentioned for "1st payment made"
    -> No guarantee of any subsequent payment(s) or amount(s)
    -> In exchange a ten (10) year confidentiality clause preventing harmful commentary against TG, Walter, Billy, etc.

    I shared this info with Jace years back...I never accepted this as it was tantamount to "hush money" BUT I was subsequently told that I was the only recipient who did NOT accept.

    This could partially explain why certain individuals have not come out against Walter/Billy within the years that followed...they could not based on the terms of what they signed.



    Thanksdatagod, MyOwnWorstEnemy, Fly thanked this post
    LikesSnowflake, datagod, nads, Fly liked this post
  11. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    Short version of the story,

    Thanks, Jace. I was joking in asking that question, didn't think you would answer, and didn't expect you too either. It's none of my business.

    Anyway AAMOI, here's what I was told. I can't even remember who told me. And if I could remember I probably wouldn't tell. .....

    1....you paid Addlers 40K asking price (to Addler)

    2...that was the cost for him to have the new website made/built.(his expenses)

    3...Walter made a fuss, so you paid him out 60K to go away. (STFU)

    That's it.(without the in between long stories)


    john


    .

  12. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark


    Thanks, Jace. I was joking in asking that question, didn't think you would answer, and didn't expect you too either. It's none of my business.

    Anyway AAMOI, here's what I was told. I can't even remember who told me. And if I could remember I probably wouldn't tell. .....

    1....you paid Addlers 40K asking price (to Addler)

    2...that was the cost for him to have the new website made/built.(his expenses)

    3...Walter made a fuss, so you paid him out 60K to go away. (STFU)

    That's it.(without the in between long stories)


    john


    .


    how does that add up to 200k?

    Likesdatagod liked this post
  13. Snowflake's Avatar

    i think lexmark is refering to info that was circulating around the time of this article. when walter took jace's money and "fled" to india.

    https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/jon-martindale/whats-really-going-on-with-twin-galaxies/

    now that walter has come out of hiding at the end of his schedule vacation, i mean now that hes no longer fleeing it makes me wonder if the rumors we all originally heard were entirely accurate

  14. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake



    how does that add up to 200k?

    Add the extra 100K that Jace paid to Walter to hand over all my zookeeper recordings in his possession! =200K



    john


    .

    Thanksfrancoisadt thanked this post
    Likesdatagod, MyOwnWorstEnemy liked this post
  15. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM

    Jace Hall said - "I don't know what Walter did with the money. I hope he fulfilled whatever obligations he had. "

    RTM REPLY - around late Dec/14 I received E-MAILs from Joel West




    LMFAO.. there's no way Joel West wrote that. He might have emailed it to you, but sure as hell didnt author it!

    Anyway, good for you Rob that you didn't sign it. And good point about why no one else "in the know" might not have said anything in the Mitchell dispute!

    john


    .

    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  16. RTM's Avatar

    Joel was a "paralegal"...technically writing was within a standard paralegal's responsibilities but issuing them could not be without the go-ahead of a lawyer (such as Steve Sanders).

    It's possible that Joel wrote a prelim and Steve dressed it up/formalized it as needed..but Joel and solely Joel sent out the E-MAIL and enclosures.

    I'm enclosing a screenshot that I saved back when I had Patterson as part of my FB friend list...this sheds a bit more light on the E-MAILs...



    https://www.betterteam.com/paralegal-job-description


    Paralegal Responsibilities:

    • Preparing affidavits, legal correspondence and other documents for attorneys.
    • Organizing and maintaining documents in a paper or electronic filing system.
    • Meeting with clients, attorneys, and other professionals to talk about case details.
    • Filing pleadings with court clerk.
    • Helping prepare for trial by organizing exhibits and assisting with other tasks as needed.
    • Preparing briefs, wills, contracts, real estate closing statements, pleadings, appeals, and other legal documents.
    • Investigating facts and laws of cases and searching public records and other resources to prepare cases and determine causes of action.
    • Directing and coordinating law office activity, including delivery of subpoenas.
    • Gathering and analyzing statutes, decisions, and legal articles, codes, documents and other data.
    • Calling on witnesses to testify at hearings.
    • Keeping law library up-to-date by monitoring legal volumes.
    Thankslexmark thanked this post
  17. RTM's Avatar

    I should have added...I never found out who the remaining recipients were...no one came forward to acknowledge their receipt even in private or casual conversation...all because of the nature of the confidentiality document they signed.

    If you think about it that payment "deal" was a joke...a paltry initial payment of in excess of $600 (a 1099 was mentioned which implies $600 minimum) followed by no guarantee of future payments OR the amounts...all in exchange for being hand-cuffed for 10 years until Walter is around 75 and Billy is around 60 never mind being fully almost 45 years after TG was formed, so by then no one would likely give a hoot anyway.

  18. Snowflake's Avatar

    well we know who one of the recepients wasnt -- patterson. poor guy. i've heard him complain pete screwed him out of money and now walter too. must be tough always being a victim

    Likeslexmark, Marcade liked this post
  19. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM



    If you think about it that payment "deal" was a joke...a paltry initial payment of in excess of $600 (a 1099 was mentioned which implies $600 minimum) followed by no guarantee of future payments OR the amounts...all in exchange for being hand-cuffed for 10 years

    I knew you got offered money, in my mind I thought it might have been around 5K-ish. But $600-ish is a piddly amount!

    Anyway, the good news is that who ever decided that ten years was long enough for peeps to keep quiet must be deluded. Ten years flies past real quick.

    About 4 years to go and they can all blab!


    john


    .

    LikesSnowflake liked this post
  20. RTM's Avatar

    Actually I said it was in excess of $600, the minimum about which requires the sending of a form 1099 by law. I was never given what the first payment amount would be either, not even a clue.

    Fact is that originally there were not 17-18 people that Walter promised percentage ownership in TG to, there were far less. The original "makeup" was as follows as of Aug/05...

    51% - Walter
    12% - Billy
    10% - myself
    10% - Ron Corcoran (re-absorbed by Walter then given to Todd Rogers)
    10% - Brien King
    5% - Douglas MacGregor (a 2001-2004 era TG programmer)
    2% - Mark Longridge

    That was the original 100% as stated by Walter...then years later he changed how "in his heart" he meant this and told Brien and I he "meant" 10% of the remaining 49%" which was total BS after stating as much initially in writing.

    At one point Walter sent letters late-2006/early-2007 which supposedly (A) re-absorbed Bill's share and (B) let Steve Sanders know that he was no longer TG's "of counsel" but I think that was all BS as well.

    Lord only knows how up to 17-18 people had promised percentages by the time Joel sent me that E-MAIL.

    My gut tells me that Walter still retained that 51% interest and that Billy still had some interest in TG so if it was that same 12% then Walter had promised 17-18 people the remaining 37% which means no more than 3% each.

    If Walter got $200K for TG then no single share would be more than $6K in total, and if he only received perhaps $70K up-front then each initial payment would be no more than $2K in total...problem is only a fraction was to be given up-front with no guarantees of more later. The math just makes no sense never mind the hush-money appearance of it all. There was no way I would ever have signed such tripe.



Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Join us