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Desidious
07-20-2020 at 03:03 PM
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The Inconsistency of Jace Hall.

I would prefer to keep my words brief considering how heated I've gotten at the removal of the Jaguar leaderboard based off a conclusion that a website had zero business putting scores from people that put some time and effort into their submissions because it wasn't Twin Galaxies.


Jace stated he is consistent in handling score disputes because it's "serious business" but the current circumstance sees him removing some Jaguar scores yet keeping the rest inactive for some odd reasoning.


See the final response here:

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/218325-Dispute-Angela-Stefanski-Atari-Jaguar-Club-Drive-Old-West-Powerball-Fastest-Completion-Player-Jonathan-Opperman-Score-34-8?1088007=#post1088007


Make your own conclusions based on the thread that got heated here:


https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/218385-Dispute-Angela-Stefanski-Atari-Jaguar-Club-Drive-Old-West-Race-Fastest-Completion-Player-Kevin-Opperman-Score-49-3


Please tell me where the consistency is. I would love a juicy debate on this because I'm not giving in or running away from this just because I hit a huge roadblock. This needs to be right here on the front page so everyone can get in on it.

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  1. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Now compare the consistancy with the Dragster dispute, the Donkey Kong dispute, and the Contra 3 dispute lol

  2. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Oh and I forgot the Zelda dispute.

  3. Desidious's Avatar

    You mean, where they show that a score is impossible or possible? Yeah they'll gloss right over those methods because this came from a site and there's no evidence if it was really achieved or not. Speaking of evidence, how many pre-tgsap scores still have evidence to prove if they actually did it or not? Makes you wonder.

  4. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Well lets break it down.

    Dragster - The conclusion from the dispute didn't come from the hard facts of the science but RTM's testimony that was proven to have flaws and incorrect statements in it. Before anyone could correct those the thread was locked and the dispute closed.

    Donkey Kong - Now scientific evidence is good enough to close a dispute.

    Contra 3 - Now testimonies and the scientific evidence based around said testimonies aren't acceptable. Just throw your hands in the air on that one.

    Zelda - Now the scientific evidence isn't good enough to close a dispute and we are back to asking another community (lol) to get testimonies and for people here to put their scores and TG accounts on the line.

    Robotron - Guy comes to the site and said he used multiple credits to get the marathon. Instead of removing the score they make a new track called "Score Stitching Allowed". Probably the most laughable dispute thus far.

    Atari Jaguar scores - Scores are proven they can be done or beaten after Brandon invests the time and hundreds of dollars to prove it. Remove one score but leave the rest up as "Inactive" as TG claims it is being consistent with the Jaguar score removals.

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  5. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Let's refrain from fighting one another and try to keep this civil.

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  6. Desidious's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninglendo

    Let's refrain from fighting one another and try to keep this civil.


    Thanks man. Fighting for what you believe in just isn't whining so I'll let that be my only jab. I'll keep face from now on. :)

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  7. Ninglendo's Avatar

    I mean even compare Dragster to the Atari Jaguar scores. The fact the Dragster time was imported from Activision, a third party, wasn't enough to get the score pulled but now just being a third party score is enough to get scores pulled.

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  8. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod



    Ok. You have to respect how "Activision" and "a random blog" just straight up aren't comparable as "outside sources," that's such an intentionally terrible analogy. You're right but for the wrong reasons.

    What's the difference in the verification though? Both were going by someone's word.
  9. Barthax's Avatar

    I seem to remember something (paraphrase) like "Each dispute is taken on its own merit and is not influenced by previous decisions." Probably won't get consistency if there's no intent for consistency.

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  10. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod



    Ok, if you're not familiar with the idea of equivocation, in general, I can't help you 🤷‍♂️

    With your original statement are you implying that Activision is more credible than a blog website? Cause there was a bunch of provable false scores/times in the Activision newsletters. I mean heck at one point and time they had 3 5.51 times listed for Dragster.
  11. EVN's Avatar

    You know what's consistent?


    No vid. No did.

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  12. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod



    Yes, Activision is more credible *even though* they had many false scores, including Dragster. Those can absolutely both be true statements. Not that either of them should have ever been a standard.

    How so?
  13. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EVN

    You know what's consistent?


    No vid. No did.

    I agree with this. In my opinion the best course of action would be to take all the pre-TGSAP scores and make them into their own "legacy" scoreboard. Then there would be no point in disputing any of those scores. Then there is no argument of verification standards.
  14. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod



    I can't make that more clear. Two things not being sufficiently good doesn't make them both equally bad. Or bad in the same way categorically. This is the base false premise of an equivocation. Like a 1% and a 59% both failing grades on an exam, but it's not fair to say both people have the same level of knowledge. (Not meant to be a direct analogy)

    You said that Activision is more credible and I am just asking why you think it is more credible. So why is that?
  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    i disagreed with you brandon right until the very end. every case is different so its not inconsistent to treat different things differently

    however where i agree, is its wildly inconsistent to say any score from the imported website already disputed will be gone, but no furthe disputes allowed for the same reason from same site. at that point whats the difference? just cause some scores were disputed sooner? now that is truly inconsistent

    truth be told though, i found the pattern, thiere is a consistency. those imports, the difference of which ones can be disputed, they could all be disputed and removed BEFORE brandon and his gang complained, after they put up a big stink jace reversed course

    much like todd's score was defended until apollo legend complained. when it was believed todd was popular he was defended, when it was learned he wasn,t he was cast aside

    the consistency here is two things
    1. its a popularity contest
    2. the greasy wheel gets the grease

    heck look at the recent bannings even. others have said worse. but when you harass lots of quiet people and send them leaving its fine, the moment one of them says something back, bam admin gets invovled real quick

    what admin clearly wants isnt consitency, or even peace, they want quiet. you can be as abusive as long, as long as noone fights back. you can be as wrong as you like as long as theres no fight. fights however, fights are stopped at all cost even if that means encouraging bad behavior by letting people know all they have to do is whine and fight to get whatever the want ended, ended

  16. thegamer1185's Avatar

    I'm not understanding the logic behind removing completely plausible scores, no matter the source. What the **** is the point of that? Seriously, why even waste the time when someone proved them to be plausible? TG is wasting their time, it forced Brandon and others to waste their time trying to figure out why something being proven plausible is no longer a valid reason to keep a score. So much for protected scores when already in the database.

    It's not like we are talking about a 90 yr old woman "plausibly" running a mile in under 5 minutes because a 20 yr old did it. It's a video game score, programmed the same across the board for everyone. Someone at the current TG era beat the score, proven it's plausible. The fact there could be a scoreboard error from a 3rd party source really means nothing when comparing it to all the actual corrupt/bribed/non entered scores because of agendas by the old TG era. At this point, I trust those 3rd party imports because what was the agenda for entering a score someone sent you other than you have a magazine and you are filling a page for entertainment purposes and maybe a challenge for another gamer? Those 3rd party scores are probably much easier to disprove than the corrupt ref entered scores as we are seeing because of the dispute system.

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  17. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod



    I'm sorry, you have to see how that question is vague.

    And you have to see how a major game developer has more authority and credibility than literally a random form anyone can fill out on face value. Rodger's score, in particular, was not a result of negligence and absolute lack of credibility, but politics, the support of other authorities (like old TG) and shamelessly continued lies. That's just different than a complete lack of any credibility to begin with.

    Thank you for proving everyone's point. Its much worse. A complete lack of credibility doesn't seem to have an agenda behind it like all the stuff you just said. All of these are from old TG, imports and corrupt refs. So why does it take thousands of posts and hours to remove a specific score when a score just proven plausible is removed with the greatest of ease? That's the inconsistency people are questioning.

    And Todd Roger's 5.51 was absolutely a result of negligence and lack of credibility. Atari's own tests...incorrectly at that...found that a 5.54 was the fastest possible time. TODD SENT THEM A PICTURE of a 5.51 and they just accepted it as fact. Seems logical.

    Updated 07-20-2020 at 06:57 PM by thegamer1185
  18. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot0fGod



    I'm sorry, you have to see how that question is vague.

    And you have to see how a major game developer has more authority and credibility than literally a random form anyone can fill out on face value. Rodger's score, in particular, was not a result of negligence and absolute lack of credibility, but politics, the support of other authorities (like old TG) and shamelessly continued lies. That's just different than a complete lack of any credibility to begin with.


    i can see where on the surface the firsr guess is activision would be more credible than an unknown website, but by your response it sounds like you dont realize where todd's score came from. Todds socre did not come from "support of other authorites like old tg", no it came from importing the activision time. That was the source of todd's score, an import from activision.

    the only thing i found corrupt/negligent in that regard is that they only imported his score and not the scores of those who tied him, making an inconsistent ruling and allowing him to claim to be the only when in reality 2 others had an equallly strong claim

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  19. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake



    i can see where on the surface the firsr guess is activision would be more credible than an unknown website, but by your response it sounds like you dont realize where todd's score came from. Todds socre did not come from "support of other authorites like old tg", no it came from importing the activision time. That was the source of todd's score, an import from activision.

    the only thing i found corrupt/negligent in that regard is that they only imported his score and not the scores of those who tied him, making an inconsistent ruling and allowing him to claim to be the only when in reality 2 others had an equallly strong claim

    Literally updated my quote as you were writing this as well. Nice!!

  20. starcrytas's Avatar

    Are we going to remove all 3rd party scores?

    I found out a while back that the Mario Kart 64 times were imported from https://www.mariokart64.com/mk64/wrc.cgi from what looks like 2005-2007.

    I don't know about other 3rd party scores, but Mario Kart 64 has videos that are scattered across Youtube.

    Example:

    Steve Gutierrez - Toad's Turnpike

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/mario-kart-64/nintendo-64/ntsc-toads-turnpike-fastest-race-allowed-shortcuts/page/1?ref=fbshare


    Does not meet the TG standard of console boot up and going through the settings, but still remains on the scoreboard with a video that is available on Youtube.

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