I read the TOS as being more focused on copyright violations and asking users to follow the laws, whatever those laws may be, rather than explicitly stating those laws and giving TGs interpertation of the laws. Downloading others file, and reuploading without permissoin was explicitly answered to not be allowed. I think thats the only explicit one we got other then the much older answer of not purposely including copyright sound in the background (something multiple people do, so it seems to be overlooked for now).

Here is a link to where Almighty Dreadlock posts Dave's statement. I'm not sure where Dave's original post is but I bet Almighty knows
https://www.twingalaxies.com/entry.ph...one-and-others

you can find a list of all of Dave's statements here in reverse chronological order
https://www.twingalaxies.com/member.p...activitystream

I only searched so far back, but if anyone else finds it I would also be interested in seeing the original context and wording

of course the above link doesnt remember individual radio button clicked. Make sure to click "Dave Hawksett" as opposed to the default radio button of "all" to just see his responses

Originally Posted by Snowflake

of course the above link doesnt remember individual radio button clicked. Make sure to click "Dave Hawksett" as opposed to the default radio button of "all" to just see his responses

His activity only goes back to Dec. 10th and I cannot find it

Originally Posted by CWK

We need @Dave Hawksett and @Jace Hall to clear this up asap as it will affect how users vote.

Here are some clear answers:

1.) After a user's recent dramatic departure where they decided to remove all their 3rd party evidence to not only negate their TG records but also selfishly waste adjudicator's previous efforts, it has become crystal clear why 3rd party video hosting should no longer be allowed. So the policy will be changing to put an end to this possibility. I will post an update about the new policy soon.

2.) If a user can not upload a video to our system due to a slow upload speed or intermittent connection, that same user will likely not be able to upload that video as a zip file either.

If a submitting user wants to try that its fine however there is a 50MB maximum file size for attachment uploads, so if the zipped video is bigger than that it likely will not work.

CWK, Max, Snowflake thanked this post

Not sure what was dramatic about it. Feeling disrespected over and over and getting essentially getting a tough ****, not my problem from the head custodian of a site you belong kind of makes a departure in inevitable.

So I'm the bad guy in all of this now as well? First of all, I'm sure your aware of this now, I'm not removing my videos out of "respect" to everyone who did vote on them. Because I actually do give a **** about the people who take the time to support me. Maybe you could do the same once a year...if your ego will allow it.

Lets be clear, the real bad guy in all of this is the TG uploader. Period. You actually tried shifting the blame to the third parties and saying uploading to them is the what the problem is. No, you egomaniac, its the TG uploader. If you put more resources into your uploader and got it working properly, everything your trying to push now would already be solved. Then you say your going to take away the only solution you have the uploader problem in allowing the third party submissions are going to be no longer allowed when you haven't even solved the TG uploader problem? It's right there. I've said it how many times and your responses was "that's life". Really ****ing cool man. I bet you felt pretty happy with yourself when you said it.

You can shift the blame you want to me, that's fine. My removing my videos was to spark an outcry from all the members who voted to change your CR system, but it wouldn't matter. You would just say, "that's life. That's what you get for voting on acceptable submissions because I'm not changing the policy. Even though it's really easy to do...and it does make sense until we get the uploader fixed. But I'm not going to do it."

Maybe your just stubborn and can't ever admit you made a mistake? I don't know, but the cold attitude towards everyone here just sucks.

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

Maybe your just stubborn and can't ever admit you made a mistake? I don't know, but the cold attitude towards everyone here just sucks.

No one is saying you are the bad guy. You can do what you want. There are no complaints.

The fact is that you can remove your evidence. This is because TG policy allowed 3rd party evidence in the first place. It has nothing to do with people being good or bad. This liability is just reality for TG.

TG must close that liability.

If the TG uploader can't handle slow upload speeds well, that means that TG must suffer and go without the ability for some great players to be able to participate and submit scores if those players cant get access to a better upload connection. That is the reality for TG. It must go without.

It has to choose to either have the liability of 3rd party video evidence that can go missing for various reasons

OR

It has to choose to miss out on some great scores and the ability to be available for people with slow upload speeds.

That is just the cold reality and there is nothing about this that changes despite how anyone feels about it.

datagod liked this post

You can change the one thing that makes it not a cold reality but a solution. Just keep the TGSAP scores in the database and if someone wants to dispute the score they can. I don't understand why that isn't an option. They have more credibility than ALL of those old TG's that you say are allowed to remain.

Again, I'm saying all of these things can be changed right now to fit the format TG is currently under the restrictions it faces. When things are updated, you can then slowly change the policies to match TG's progress. Right now, your changing things with the progress still remaining the same. I honestly don't see what the harm is in allowing these things to happen. Then nobody takes CR hit unless the score is disputed. Just like all the other scores in the database that still have evidence in TGSAP or if there a legacy score. There would be no need to change anything to CR, nothing. Then all scores are equal. If something gets removed the score still remains. It gives the submitter a chance to reupload or do what needs to be done to keep their score. It keeps all voters' CR safe. I really must be so dense that I don't understand why any of these things are wrong. ****, maybe I am.

I've even said I AGREE with you in your overall goal. All evidence should be on TG. Right now, that simply isn't possible because of two things.

1. You just won't change some things to match the progress of TG.
2. Your simply OK with people not being able to participate when they in fact still can until TG has progressed far enough to make the changes.

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

...If the TG uploader can't handle slow upload speeds well....

Just to throw this out there, adding my own experience uploading videos....

There was a several week period many months ago where my upload speed would drop considerably. The upload would start at 400-500K, but pretty quickly dropped down to 10-20K, and it would take like two, sometimes three days to upload a video. I have no way of knowing what the source was with that speed drop. But when it finished, the video was there just fine.

Conversely, I've had a couple videos, more recently - but still a few months ago, where the upload speed stayed in that 400-500K range, but failed during the 'video is processing' phase after the upload successfully completed.

So I feel it's more about that 'processing' phase than it is with upload speed. But that is just my experience, and I think I've only had 2 or 3 submissions that I had to cancel due to unplayable video. Not a huge deal, but obvs not desirable.

Kyle correct me if I’m misinterpreting but are you saying a challenged score with removed evidence would still be removed just no mass removal of scores initiated by tg without a challenge? If so the two are really no different. People will challenge every score with evidence gone missing it’s already started. The only difference in the two approaches is the speed at which scores get removed

Originally Posted by Snowflake

Kyle correct me if I’m misinterpreting but are you saying a challenged score with removed evidence would still be removed just no mass removal of scores initiated by tg without a challenge? If so the two are really no different. People will challenge every score with evidence gone missing it’s already started. The only difference in the two approaches is the speed at which scores get removed

I am saying that in your first sentence, yes. No mass removal simply because the video goes missing. If someone wants to dispute the score, they can. This at least allows the person who submitted some time to at least see their score is being disputed and can either explain what happened to the video evidence...if youtube had it removed for copyrights or if they just simply accidentally deleted it for whatever reason. This also gives some time for the people who voted some protection from an immediate CR hit. It also allows the people voted and the submitter a chance to defend the score. After all, if you voted on a score that is going to be removed simply because a video went missing, you could help defend the score. Isn't that why the dispute system was in place to begin with. To give people a chance to defend their scores?

The way it is now IMO goes against all those things mentioned. I just don't understand the need to immediately remove the score when legacy scores exist in the exact same manner with less evidence. It also prevents the hassle of people voting a legit submission and losing CR from circumstances out of their control. It also prevents the person from then having to resubmit if they do still in fact have the video, which I'd say most of us do a pretty job of backing them up. I guess I don't see the need to rush the removal of a score that multiple accepted. Let it go through process.

Once TG gets things figured out with the uploader and what not, change the policy. I don't see why the policy that is already here for these exact reasons is now going to be removed when the situation that is creating this isn't fixed.

I'll say it again, I'm all for what the overall goal is. Until every step along the way is where it needs to be, why remove things that are in place that makes things acceptable for the time being. I don't understand Jace's mind set of wanting to actually have people go away when I/We don't have to. If it takes two years, it takes two years. I now he is doing what he can. Sooner or later the Uploader will work or the smaller internet providers will be able to just give out a standard higher speeds. The two companies around me are constantly upgrading. I'm pretty sure every year they are reaching faster speeds. Its only a matter of time before Jace won't even have to worry about the uploader, the problem will resolve itself. So again, why rush these things?

I completely agree with everything Jace is wanting to do, I don't agree with some of the unnecessary steps he is taking to get there when waiting will simply do it for him. Or TG will get the issues worked out. Why tell the unfortunate beings like myself to stop using the system for awhile? It literally doesn't make sense when, at this moment, I've never been more involved in TG and I can use the system. I stop using the system, I'm going away. I'm also a gamer and not a troll. I talk way better than I blog.

Do I really have to point out the time and resources TG is using to make sure they get the Dragster dispute right? Why can't that apply to everything else by literally just letting things be? TG doesn't have to do anything, let the system be. Make a few minor changes like the ones I've suggested that many people agree with. When things get figured out uploading wise or whatever the alternative may be, then change the policy. I would then definitely upload whatever records I have directly to TG when it happens.

But I'm not being told that. I'm told to simply stop using the system for awhile because it's unfortunate that "that's life." I know what the problems are with the third party submissions. Why do you think I DID NOT remove my scores? I'd be adding to the argument instead of backing my own. I made one small choice that could have affected my people who took the time to help my scores. TG can make one small to choice to change a few things to a policy for now that affects many of it's members. It protects the voters who can be anyone, it protects the submitters, and it doesn't affect anyone else who doesn't have anything to do with the first two things I just mentioned.

So again, where is the harm for letting these TGSAP scores still remain even though the evidence of the video goes missing? All those reasons I just mentioned should far outway the negative, at the moment, of the evidence not being permanent. In time, it will be.

MyOwnWorstEnemy liked this post

What I said in the "other" thread:

Indeed, when pointed out, it's a totally different rule.
Old scores have no proof whatsoever. Just the say so of a mate/ref.
If a new score gets approved, it's already gone through a more stringent process of proof.
Removing the video will make it, not equal to, but still more acceptable than the old scores.
Some arcade records have not been broken for 30 years on MAME. Why not? Were they genius's? If this was the norm, the Kong record would be 800,000(-ish). They are obviously lies.

thegamer1185 thanked this post

thegamer1185, MyOwnWorstEnemy liked this post

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

it has become crystal clear why 3rd party video hosting should no longer be allowed. So the policy will be changing to put an end to this possibility. I will post an update about the new policy soon.

Any update on this?

Originally Posted by Max

Any update on this?

Just waiting for the engineering team to finish this next site update before implementing this formally, but in general people should no longer be using 3rd party hosting for their evidence packages at this point.

Max thanked this post

Originally Posted by Jace Hall

Just waiting for the engineering team to finish this next site update before implementing this formally, but in general people should no longer be using 3rd party hosting for their evidence packages at this point.

Will there be any way to add video evidence to a submission after the initial post is made? I supplied additional evidence due to a question regarding proof of the difficulty settings on a submission of mine.

I'd like to have it be permanently stored at TG, not Youtube, if its at all possible (and also because one has to leave the adjudication thread, since I can't embed the Youtube video, it seems).

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthre...-000-Pete-Hahn

I'd like to mention again how great it would be to have a video manager similar to the photo manager we currently have. Though it would need to have some differences to account for the fact that we can't delete a video once it's been attached to a submission...

But if we could upload our videos and check they're valid before using them in a submission, be able to attach additional ones to a submission after the fact, easily find an existing video to include it in a new submission instead of having to open up the page source and include a vzaar number. All that would be a very positive set of user experience improvements.

kernzyp, HAN liked this post