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HAN
06-27-2018 at 09:57 AM
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Gun Smoke (Arcade) - How would YOU adjudicate this?

As an employee at Galloping Ghost Arcade, I get to see a great number of excellent players doing their thing on a weekly basis.

One of our local players, Bryan, is getting really good at Gun.Smoke. He's done several 1 credit clears (1CC) of the game and is contemplating going after the world record of approx 2.25M. Here is one of Bryan's recent runs where he clears the game and scores about 1.3M, if you're interested:




I've been helping him with researching how the extra points are made, and came across information posted by the current WR holder:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82805.0

Reply # 8 got me interested and I started testing in MAME how these dragonflies work that he was speaking about. I found that inserting 255 coins on slot 1, then 1 coin on slot 2 before starting your game lead to the maximum amount of dragonflies appearing in stage 1, adding well over 400k points to your score:



How would you vote on a submission that uses this method to score?

If anyone has any knowledge, knows other ways Bryan can increase his score, or knows any of the history about this score, I'd love to hear it!
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Comments
  1. Emayl's Avatar
    For some reason, the special rule that was apparently added to the TG MAME version ("one-credit game" only) wasn't added to the TG arcade track. The arcade track says nothing about that that I can see. I guess I wouldn't have any reason to vote no on it. Technically. Unless there's some other blanket rule I'm not familiar with.

    I'm assuming when people use this 255 credits on the left, 1 on the right method they coin it up from inside the machine, not with actual quarters. That seems weird to me.

    Also have no idea if the current top scores on the arcade version used this method, though it would seem likely.

    With what I know just right now, I'd abstain.
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  2. Barthax's Avatar
    Single Credit, One player - de facto rule. Plenty of games stipulate other possibilities in their rules (2nd player for Galaga, for example) but I don't remember this game ever having significant rules discussion.

    Thread for current WR announced: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...heriff-in-Town
    Apparently every 15th Credit?: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthr...moke-questions
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  3. GibGirl's Avatar
    Side note - this post broke the front page. I just get a scrolling window "this profile cannot be found", and there are no more wall posts shown after it.

    Edit: even notifications don't work on the front page right now... hey @admin staff , can someone look at this issue?
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    Updated 06-27-2018 at 10:46 AM by GibGirl
  4. ThePulseRifle's Avatar
    I would abstain from voting, as this looks like an exploit. If there are such things as rules for referees to only allow for limited farming in certain games (see the recent Super C charity post, for example), then this would almost qualify for its own track, no? "Hammers allowed", "No Hammers allowed", "Dragonflies allowed", "No Dragonflies allowed."
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  5. Snowflake's Avatar
    As much as I dont like "global" rules there are some rules that I think really do almost go without saying. Obvioulsy it has to be you playing, not someone else. You have to submit to the right track. You cant fake evidence....
    One of the global rules is the no continue rule. I could see it not being obvious in games where continues zero out your score, so for that reason i'd probably prefer it be explicilty stated. But enough games let you just buy a score with continues that you have to rule them out.
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  6. sdwyer138's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl
    Side note - this post broke the front page. I just get a scrolling window "this profile cannot be found", and there are no more wall posts shown after it.
    He reached the TG kill screen
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  7. HAN's Avatar
    Thank you everyone who has posted for your input. By that post I linked from arcadecontrols.com, it seems like we should assume the current WR used this "trick" or whatever you want to call it to get his score.

    I also recall a Mortal Kombat 2 (or maybe MK3?) score where players were bypassing the winning poses to save time for fastest completion, let me see if I can find it. This isn't quite the same, but that used extra credits to help with getting the record.
  8. TB-303's Avatar
    why is this the only thing I'm seeing on the wall
  9. GibGirl's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TB-303
    why is this the only thing I'm seeing on the wall
    Because something about it broke the front page.
  10. HAN's Avatar
    paging @admin staff and @TWIN GALAXIES
  11. sdwyer138's Avatar
    You can still browse all of TG from within the post... so I really don't see what the problem is...

  12. GibGirl's Avatar
    Why stop at just one nesting?

  13. Snowflake's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by HAN
    Thank you everyone who has posted for your input. By that post I linked from arcadecontrols.com, it seems like we should assume the current WR used this "trick" or whatever you want to call it to get his score.

    I also recall a Mortal Kombat 2 (or maybe MK3?) score where players were bypassing the winning poses to save time for fastest completion, let me see if I can find it. This isn't quite the same, but that used extra credits to help with getting the record.
    i totally admit i'm arguing semantics -- but those semantics were key to the debate there.

    Technically no extra credits were used. That was a sticking point for me that allowed to me to be convinced its ok. Putting a coin in, in otherwords, buying another credit caused the scene to be skipped. However, that credit was never used. Think any arcade machine. Even in the middle of your run, you can insert another coin, the game will remember the coin and give you your credit later. That mortal kombat run used none of the extra credits. Simply paying those credits let the scenes be skipped.

    it was one of the mortal kombats, arcade, patrick maher if that helps speed up your search
  14. sdwyer138's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by GibGirl
    Why stop at just one nesting?

  15. Snowflake's Avatar
    Heres my issue. Do we make sure on other games people only insert one coin? People can pay for multiple credits as long as they only use one. Also this doesnt seem to be a bug or hack so much as a secret that anyone can use now that we know about it. I dont think any rules were broken. I dont think it creates unfair play.

    At the same time it does create a difference. I wouldnt mind splitting the tracks. Heres the problem though since no rules were broken i dont think we should repeat the berzerk mistake. If someone wants a track that outlaws this, awesome. But at least for now its my opinion no rules were broken
  16. hanasu's Avatar
    I see no reason to disallow this score. In addition, splitting tracks on a game that sees no competition is ridiculous.
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  17. Blackflag82's Avatar
    I think it's fine. additionally, the thread you linked to talks about how the score was disallowed when it was submitted on MAME and the rules amended. The score on mame is just shy of 1.9 million. (or 350k shy of the arcade record). The scores he talks about getting on MAME using the coin trick are on par with the top arcade score. It seems likely that the coin trick was used here.

    My 2 cents - strategy is fine to use. and definitely don't split the track
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  18. Snowflake's Avatar
    i want to be clear when i said "split" i just meant anyone who has an issue with this can create a new track. I definitely dont want one of the old tg "splits" where you can change rules after the fact and then guess which scores belong on which tracks and move them. All scores existing scores need to stay on this track and this track should continue to allow it
  19. Ninglendo's Avatar
    I look at it like loading specific seeds on certain games. I've been speedrunning the first Zelda and one of the strategies I've been using is starting the game at a specific time on the title screen so the RNG for item drops is in my favor and the enemies will always spawn in the same spot. Really that's all the coin trick is doing is manipulating the enemy spawns like in Zelda. I wouldn't have an issue with it.
  20. Conjured Entertainment's Avatar
    These are in game cheat codes, you just didn't have a better way of input for arcade than the coin drops.
    That technique is just like using a cheat code, because it changes from normal game play to give the player an advantage outside of the normal scope of the game play.

    Therefore, the coin drop trick to get better spawns would fall into the "not in the spirit of the game" category, and would get a reject regardless of the track rules being aware of the hack at the time the track was founded.


    NO is how I would vote for the coin drop spawn cheat hack.

    These secret code tricks and programmers back doors are fun to use when playing for fun, but are not acceptable for competitive gaming.
    Updated 06-27-2018 at 03:32 PM by Conjured Entertainment
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