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maximumsteve
10-14-2019 at 07:13 AM
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Posting Truth on the Bill Mitchell DK Score Dispute...

I apologize up front for the length of this but it's important for me to share all of this from my own experience and that of my friend David Race from a post he made yesterday regarding the story that Billy Mitchell gave about the alleged "authentic" 1.062 Million DK Game back in 2010 at Boomers here in South Florida and what the real facts are about this event and the absolute contradictions of Bill's story back then and what we have come to know now. In addition to David's assessment, there is the video footage he took of the Big Bang Event at the IVGHOF in 2010 that you can watch attached to this posting.

Carlos Pineiro and myself were also told by Billy in person a year and a half ago, when we were volunteering on his behalf, that a woman from Sebring, FL he knew had video footage and pictures of the whole Mortgage Brokers Event in Orlando when he did his 1.050 million game. He assured us that the pictures and video were "in the mail" being sent to him as evidence on his behalf.
I remember how excited me and Carlos were to hear this news, as at that point we believed him at his word to acquire these all important things to help his cause.
A month later we were still asking him where this footage and photography was.
And now a year and a half later, wouldn't you think that "evidence" like this would have surely been included in his 156 page "Evidence Package" that he sent to TG's attorney??

Their timeline of deflecting stories is running out.
The "Fake" and "Staged" Boomers video that Bill Mitchell and Robert Childs made on Youtube was always recognized by them as legitimate and real UNTIL the dispute took shape and then all of the sudden it was a staged "YouTube" moment.

Then the tapes were tampered with by Dwyane Richard, until the 2006 MTV Footage with Robert Mruzcak surfaced and showed the KOK 1.047 game with the wrong orientation that was at least 3 years predating anything to do with Richard. There is also footage of that same game being displayed at a event in the U.K. in 2005 that there is footage of.

Next it will be that he didn't know he was playing on emulated equipment. You may ask why I care so much about this?

As a legitimate Guinness and TG World Record Holder(Mario Bros.) I value the integrity of the scoreboard and know how hard it is to achieve a world record on these classic games.

OH Btw, on this footage of the 1.062 game at the IVGHOF, you can see the Donkey Kong game on the TV to the right of Bill. If you zoom in, pause, and move frame by frame, you will see the "3 Girders" starting the barrel board as exhibited on the other two games of footage(KOK 1.047 and Mortgage Brokers Convention 1.050). And Now from David Race...

" I remember hearing Billy say at the Big Bang in 2010, “There were scores of people, maybe as much as a hundred people at times behind ya. They had their cell phones and videos. So the word of it leaked out to some degree one way or another.”

( https://youtu.be/l-LRptUQwFE 5:30-5:40)

I remember being contacted by Billy(April 19, 2018) and Rob(April 20, 2018) about an investigative reporter named Dan Sweeney who I was told they were working with. I remember being contacted by Mr. Sweeney and I spoke with him on April 23, 2018. A few days earlier(April 20, 2018) he had put out an article titled, “Video game champ Billy Mitchell fighting back after being stripped of record scores”.

(https://www.sun-sentinel.com/…/fl-reg-mitchell-follow-20180…)

At the end of that piece, he wrote, “If you recall Mitchell’s record-setting run in 2010 at Boomers in Dania Beach, contact [email]dsweeney @Daniel _Sweeney.”

After the “Billy Mitchell Evidence Package” was made public I e-mailed Mr. Sweeney on September 19, 2019 and asked if anyone had come forward with recollections of Billy’s game at Boomers in 2010. I was told that he spent weeks trying to confirm Billy’s side of the story through independent sources, but was unable. He was also told that there was video out there but was never able to find it. He even reached out to Palace Entertainment, who owned Boomers at the time, but to no avail.

When someone says that there was up to a hundred people, some with cell phones and video, it is more than reasonable to ask for proof. Simply stating it, does not serve as proof. I have been told by Rob Childs on more than one occasion that he has tons of video and pictures of this event but that they were on one of his laptops or hard drives and doesn’t have the time to find them. I informed Billy of what Rob told me and that if true he needed to light a fire under him because if there was such a plethora of video evidence that could vindicate him, there certainly is NO excuse why it hasn’t surfaced. One cannot simply pass the buck and try to shift the blame or offer excuses when such evidence could be seen as vital to Billy’s defense. I can only surmise that anything Rob has must not be that important, otherwise, Billy would have been all over it.

As of right now, there is no independent evidence that Billy even played DK or DK Jr on July 30, 2010, and the fact there are staged/faked videos featuring Rob Childs and Todd Rogers doesn’t help in establishing such a claim. Some of the signed statements in the evidence package have already been shown to contain false statements. Given this, the statements signed in relation to the Boomers score should also be viewed with suspicion. Please remember if this dispute makes its way to court, all those witnesses may have to testify and be cross-examined under oath.

I have heard in conversations with Billy statements like, “Rob is incapable of lying” or that he doesn’t know how to lie, or words to that effect. I know that ALL of us are capable of lying, so I am not impressed when I hear something like that. I have heard both Rob and Billy offer to take a lie detector test. That is the reason why in my “Initial Assessment”, of September 2, 2018, I strongly suggested to Jerry Byrum, president of the IVGHOF, that “a polygraph examination be scheduled for each individual at different times and at different locations”.

Recently(October 8, 2019), I sent the following to Mr. Byrum, “I was wondering if the IVGHOF had decided to set up polygraph exams for Billy Mitchell and Rob Childs? The last thing I heard from Billy is that they were still willing. I was told that they knew someone who could conduct the tests. This, however, would be unacceptable. If done, the tests would have to be conducted separately and at different times with the other one not present or in contact with the other. The examiners also would have to be chosen by an independent 3rd party. I haven't heard anything related to my assessment and recommendation coming out of the IVGHOF since I presented it to you on September 2, 2018. Has a decision been made, or will it be made soon with respect to the concerns about Billy Mitchell?”

The response I received from Jerry was that the Hall of Fame has no intention of setting up such tests for Billy of anyone else and that he has not seen anything conclusive that would prove guilt.

This was part of my response, “I didn't ask you to adjudicate gameplay or scores. I asked if a decision had been made with respect to Billy Mitchell. Forgive me Jerry, but the impression you gave me on the phone and what was posted on the IVGHOF facebook page was that an independent investigation was being pursued in order to make a decision regarding Billy and others with respect to Hall of Fame eligibility. That is certainly within the scope and power of the IVGHOF. I mentioned the polygraph tests because both Billy and Rob have stated they would be willing to take one. In my initial assessment I made a suggestion that this should be done. Even before that I messaged you about the subject along with a link to sites where exams could be scheduled. You didn't respond with any concerns about this or anything mentioned in my assessment until now. It has been over a year since you acknowledged receipt of it. The last message I got from you was from the end of November where you said you thought it was time to issue a statement and press release. This was in response to me asking about the Billy Mitchell situation. Did I miss something? Did you issue a press release and statement regarding this matter? If so, I don't remember seeing it, or being notified.

As far as polygraphs are concerned, if the IVGHOF has no interest in this, I would be willing to schedule and pay for them myself. That would mean, however, the IVGHOF would not be involved and no input from the organization would be considered. I would be the one who determines where and when each one would be conducted along with the list of questions provided to the examiner(s).

Jerry, I know the IVGHOF was under no obligation to investigate anything. I am just wondering why you took the course you did? You contacted me and then posted that you were working with an independent 3rd party. Was this all just for appearances or show? After all, none of this had to be done.

With that being said, I still want to know the truth. I don't think Billy or Rob would ever take a polygraph test, unless of course, they had a say in how it was conducted and by who. I take any statement indicating their willingness to take a lie detector test as a meaningless gesture. Essentially, I am calling their bluff. I will be making a public statement echoing these sentiments.”

Yes, I am offering to pay for polygraph examinations for both Billy Mitchell and Rob Childs. If they are willing to take me up on this offer, it will be in accordance with MY terms, not their own. This means I will be the one scheduling everything, including the examiner, questions, time and place. The site of the exam(s) will be in Ohio within driving distance of where I live. A deposit from each individual would first be required to assure that they follow through and actually take the test. Only after they have completed their exams will the respective deposits be returned to them. I will be sending a text message to both parties informing them of my offer. Any telephone call from either party will be recorded. This notification will also be included in the aforementioned text message. Any call received after notification will be taken as implied consent.

In the EGM article titled “The Split-Screen Man” Josh Harmon relates his interaction with Richie Knucklez, “Despite his unwavering public support, Knucklez also told me that he hasn’t always been convinced of Mitchell’s innocence. Uncertainty crept in when Mitchell was unable to replicate his Boomers stunt—by matching the Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. scores in a single day—in the months following the verdict. ‘Since then he’s playing like crazy, and he cannot duplicate the one-day thing. He’s been at my place playing and he can’t do it again. So part of me kind of thinks that he cheated,’ Knucklez told me.

A heart-to-heart with Mitchell tempered those doubts. ‘I said, ‘Even if you tell me the truth, man, I swear to God I will keep it to my grave.’ He looked me in the eye and he almost got teary. He got choked up. He’s like, ‘Richie, you don’t believe in me.’ I go, ‘I believe in you. Just the evidence is too strong against you. Please be honest with me.’ And he looked at me and he said, ‘It’s the last time we’re going to talk about this.’ And he got choked up and he’s like, ‘You’re one of my best friends, if not my best friend. I would never let you risk your reputation on me going down.’

‘And that’s all I had to hear, because you think about it: He’s putting me out there as a shield, and if he goes down I go down, and I have a business. I make a living doing this. So he said, ‘I would never do that to you because your little girl would suffer if that happened to you.’

‘I thought about it. What kind of man would let me go down that hard?’

(https://egmnow.com/the-split-screen-man/)

Unfortunately, it is fairly common for certain people. Playing on one’s emotions and using what a person values most – a parent or child- is often employed in order to manipulate another. Think about how many times you have heard someone in real life or on TV or film swear that they were telling the truth, going even so far as to invoke the life of their mother or daughter, just to find out that they were lying the whole time. Such manipulative tactics have been referred to as “gaslighting”. The term derives its name from “Gaslight” the name of a play and film adaptations in the early 20th century.

The following is from a Psychology Today article, “As in the movie, the perpetrator often acts concerned and kind to dispel suspicions. Someone capable of persistent lying and manipulation is also quite capable of being charming and seductive. Often the relationship begins that way. When the gaslighting starts, you might even feel guilty for doubting a person you’ve come to trust. To further play with your mind, an abuser might offer evidence to show that you’re wrong or question your memory or senses. More justification and explanation, including expressions of love and flattery, are concocted to confuse you and reason away any discrepancies in the liar’s story. You get temporary reassurance, but you increasingly doubt your own senses, ignore your gut, and become more confused."

(https://www.psychologytoday.com/…/how-know-if-youre-victim-…)

Wikipedia begins its definition of “Gaslighting” this way, “Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim’s belief.”

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting)

See also, “Dorpat, T. L. (1994). On the double whammy and gaslighting. Psychoanalysis & Psychotherapy, 11(1), 91-96.
Abstract
Uses illustrations taken from everyday life and the psychotherapy situation to describe the double whammy (DW), a type of gaslighting. In gaslighting, 1 individual by projective identification attempts to cause another individual to doubt his/her own judgments and perceptions. The basic pattern of the DW includes a verbal attack on the victim; the victim's response; and a gaslighting intervention in which the victimizer attacks the victim's judgments, perception, or reality-testing. A major and probably universal motive for the DW is the victimizer's need to regulate his/her feeling states by controlling interactions with other individuals. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)”
(https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1995-25157-001)

I now believe this whole drawn-out thing has been an elaborate exercise in gaslighting a certain section of the classic arcade community. I don’t take kindly to being lied to. If I believe there is good evidence that someone is trying to lead me on or manipulate me in such a way, I’m not going to put up with it. Sure, we are all susceptible, but after admitting it, do you just sit quiet or do you do something? Well, this is me doing something.

The more assurances I and others were given with respect to the games and events under discussion, the more questions it raised. When someone tells you that there was a video of the board being hooked up, but can offer no actual proof, not even incidental images or videos from 3rd party eventgoers, then one cannot be blamed for doubting and questioning the reliability of such statements. Even the so-called witnesses to the games in questions either can’t or won’t produce any pics or video they may have taken. If not cell phones, digital cameras were ubiquitous during the time spanning from 2004-2010. And to reiterate, Rob Childs has said that he has TONS of pictures and video, but hasn’t been able to produce anything except the staged videos, which only served as fire for this whole controverted dispute.

I assumed that when all of the witnesses came forth, we would have pictures and videos which they would provide. Has anyone seen a single picture of the Mortgage Brokers event with Billy Mitchell playing Donkey Kong? Please, I am willing to be corrected. I want to see it. Instead, all we have are written statements, most of which appear to have been crafted for the “witnesses” to sign. On top of that, when I discovered that false statements had been inserted concerning Billy’s perfect Pac-Man which certain people, including Billy himself, swore to be true, how seriously should any of this be taken, really? I believe anything forthcoming from Billy Mitchell warrants serious skepticism. I can no longer give Billy the benefit of the doubt, and he only has himself to blame for that."

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Comments
  1. datagod's Avatar

    Contacting people off site to either ask them to vote YES for your score, or to somehow threaten/ intimidate/harass them to vote a certain way was (and possibly still is) a bannable offense.

    Also agenda based collusion.

    One person controlled the TG accounts of all their friends in a trailer park because he was the only one with an internet connection. That person would routinely log in with all their accounts and vote. When they instituted a 2000 credibility requirement for tribrinials, their power we greatly diminished. That also was agenda based collusion but nobody seemed to care.

    Attacking the admins is what got Rudy banned. He had a timeout because of nasty things he said on TG, but he would not stop contacting the admin and being over the top rude / profane.


  2. The Evener's Avatar

    Maximumsteve, thanks for sharing your reflections and experiences, and for cross-posting David Race's FB message on your wall. I can appreciate that this event has had real-world consequences for you given your friendship with Mitchell, particularly as someone who was supportive of him yet even-handed as the dispute review evolved. It's increasingly clear to me that Mitchell has shifted gears - whatever pretence he expressed early on for upholding scoreboard integrity has been eclipsed by his decision to surround himself with "fans" who have little to no interest in anything about Mitchell's past or present statements - they just want to quote Mitchell KoK lines in their tweets to him or call anyone who has followed the evidence as "losers" or "haters." The fact that Mitchell recently raised the drawbridge to his Twitter account by making it private by announcing to his followers that they "made the cut" as members of his club is pretty emphatic evidence that Mitchell isn't interested in the wider gaming community or the impact of his actions on those who gave him the benefit of the doubt.

    David Race's frustration is palpable as well given his face-value acceptance of Mitchell and Childs' accounts about the DK scores, accounts that came under increasing strain through numerous tests that didn't match the results promised by Mitchell and Childs, and which finally fell apart under the weight of changing stories found in the latest evidence package. I wasn't aware of Race's extended conversation with Jerry Byrum of the IVGHOF about the integrity of its inductees - kudos to Race for trying to bridge the gap by offering Byrum possible ways to try and resolve the conflict.

    I found it extremely illuminating to learn from Race that he was told on more than one occasion by Childs that he (Childs) had a ton of videos and photos from the Boomer's event on a laptop or hard drive BUT he didn't have the time to find them, and that when Race approached Mitchell directly about Childs' statements, Mitchell did nothing to have this crucial evidence shared with anyone. Remember in the dispute review how Childs claimed that he dared not set up his super-expensive camera up beside Mitchell's DK cab at Boomers to record the DK run because the last one was knocked over and destroyed, and he wasn't about to have his second expensive replacement meet a similar fate, but then how we learned for the first time last year from Childs and Mitchell that Childs had set up another camera on a large tripod that recorded a "room shot" of the arcade gameplay, yet all this crucial evidence went missing once the tapes were "handed over to TG"? "Gaslighting" would only begin to describe this turn of events.

    I suspect that Race doesn't want to get more directly involved in the evidence review, but I wondered if he might be at a place where he's comfortable sharing his original source footage (uncompressed) that he recorded of the 1.06 million score from the IVGHOF announcement? I know that Race cited the MTV video as compelling evidence that prompted him to reject the earlier theory that Dwayne Richard was possibly involved in doctoring DK videos since the MTV footage predates by years any possible involvement of Richard. On this point, I felt from the beginning the existing 1.06 million footage was equally compelling since there was never any doubt from Mitchell about the video chain of custody that completely excluded Richard from any involvement. I'm curious if Race's video might corroborate the evidence of MAME-like transitions found in the other 1.06 million recordings; more generally, I think access to this footage would be an important evidentiary contribution.

    Thanks again for posting your comments and Race's FB message, Steve.

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    Updated 10-14-2019 at 11:25 PM by The Evener
  3. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod



    Clearly I have failed in making my point. Allow me to re-iterate.

    1. Billy Mitchell and Walter day promoted Billy and Twin Galaxies.

    2. Billy had some pretty cool scores.

    3. Billy is charming, good looking (I guess), is extroverted, and has a plan.

    4. Billy pushed and pushed and pushed his own story, his own agenda.

    5. Billy got the attention of people in Hollywood and was paid quite a lot of cash to be in King of Kong. He also was paid to appear at shows, give talks, etc.

    6. If Billy lied and cheated, it was bad. I do not condone cheating or lying.

    7. There were no other similarly skilled people in the classic arcade world that would have replaced Billy in the "Billy and Walter TG show".

    8. You don't get to be a star simply by being good at a game. It takes more than that, at least over the past 25 years.



    Seriously dude? This is also something I find highly amusing about folks like you. You can't debate politely. You have to get into name calling or making homophobic remarks about my chosen lifestyle.

    If you really want, we can take this offline. I know a discord server where I might be inclined to suggest you lack funds and may have inappropriate relationships with marsupials.

    What name did I call you? I never called you a name. If you are referring to the cock holster comment and you have stated above that is your chosen life style are you not in fact a homo and the statement is then a fact? Homo is not derogatory, it's the opposite of hetero. I'm okay being open about who I am online and offline. I can debate politely and most often do so, I just know when someone is trying to sell me bullshit and I have no issues calling them out on it. I don't need to pretend to be a certain way on one site and then be completely different on another. More power to you though. I'm probably the most honest guy you talk too. Sometimes people don't like it because if you ask me a question, I'll tell you what I think. No offense intended, you asked, I tell. The offense isn't my problem anyway. I can't control how one takes the answer I give them.

    You seem to really think money is a means of actual human worth. You constantly bring up dollar value for some reason. And OH. MY. GOD. Marsupials are the best. Oh yeah, way to be polite by suggesting I have inappropriate relationships with marsupials. Bit hypocritical don't you think? Seriously though, I love a good "pouch" to stick things in.

    That's about all I can handle for reliving junior high tonight.

  4. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    I get annoyed with the amount of anti-Billy piling on that is occurring. There seems to be a large number of people that believe that if Billy didn't get the accolades, they would have. They don't seem to understand that no matter what, Billy and Walter were a successful team that promoted Twin Galaxies and themselves as a brand. Other people who are excellent at Donkey Kong won't get a movie made about them unless they have charisma and are interesting to the audience. People didn't watch King of Kong because they heard there was a movie finally celebrating high scores. They watched it because somebody they know watched it and said "You gotta watch this movie. It is about video game fans (nerds) that are fighting over a high score on Donkey Kong. It is really interesting because of the people and the story."

    People who think they deserve the money Billy got for that movie are deluding themselves if they think they deserved the money instead.

    Charm. Charisma. Talent. Looks. Style. You gotta have it all.

    Hey, Bill. Note that after several hours NO ONE has thanked or liked that post.

    There's a good reason for that, Bill. Because it was BS!

    And I'm not joking this time.


    john

    .

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  5. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark


    Hey, Bill. Note that after several hours NO ONE has thanked or liked that post.

    There's a good reason for that, Bill. Because it was BS!

    And I'm not joking this time.


    john

    .

    Do you get self worth from the amount of likes and thanks you get on a site with 20 active members?

    Dude. We should have a beer.

  6. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    are you not in fact a homo and the statement is then a fact? Homo is not derogatory


    And lets check the board....


  7. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by lexmark
    Hey, Bill. Note that after several hours NO ONE has thanked or liked that post.There's a good reason for that, Bill. Because it was BS!And I'm not joking this time.

    Oh John. I dont expect any of the Billy haters to agree. I stated facts. It hurts people feelings, but nobody is going to make the kind of money that Billy Mitchell did over the years over retro games.

    Sorry not sorry.

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  8. lexmark's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod


    but nobody is going to make the kind of money that Billy Mitchell did over the years over retro games.

    Sorry not sorry.

    That's because no one has cheated and lied as hard as him!!


    john


    .

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  9. swaggers's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    Oh John. I dont expect any of the Billy haters to agree. I stated facts. It hurts people feelings, but nobody is going to make the kind of money that Billy Mitchell did over the years over retro games.

    Sorry not sorry.
    You don't know that. You are making assumptions that are based on your own bias that Billy is so full of, in your own words, "Charm. Charisma. Talent. Looks. Style."
    You keep harping on money. Not everyone is looking for money. Billy's actions 100% robbed people of getting any of the recognition they deserved.
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  10. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    but nobody is going to make the kind of money that Billy Mitchell did over the years over retro games.

    Even if this is true, then your statements are largely meant for half a dozen or so folks who haven't been part of the TG community for ages.

    For the rest of us, our negativity towards him is based on the fact that Billy is a liar and a cheat, and continues tolie about all of it. I could care less how much money Billy did or didn't make as a result of his antics. Those of us interested in classic gaming would be here (or other places) without Billy. And as previously stated, the rest of the gaming world largely has no clue who Billy is, and does not care. Billy had nothing to do with the rise of Speedrunning or the current Esports world regardless to his charisma. So I'm failing to see what Billy has done for gaming that couldn't have happened without him? (Other than making himself some money, stepping on a lot of people on his way, and giving the current community a lot of headaches cleaning up his mess)


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  11. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82
    For the rest of us, our negativity towards him is based on the fact that Billy is a liar and a cheat, and continues tolie about all of it.

    Sure, I totally understand that. It is your right. I am not disagreeing.

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  12. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by swaggers
    You don't know that.

    Yeah....I am pretty sure I do. I have studied marketing and persuasion. I am saying Billy had the right mix of the right stuff to do what he did.

    Who exactly did he "rob" ? Recognition they deserve? Sorry, but being good at a video game does not mean you deserve recognition, at least not outside of the high score chasing community. The most butt-hurt person I have seen in this regard is tim Scerzyby (sorry, can't spell). He wasn't left out of King of Kong because Billy had a higher score. He was left out because of his abrasive personality. No charm, full of anger, etc. He didn't fit the story that the film makers wanted to craft.

    If you can't see why Billy succeeded, then you probably don't understand how Donald Trump became president. It isn't about facts. It is about the ability to persuade. To convince people to listen to you, and to believe you, and to do what you want them to.

    I highly suggest you follow Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert). He has a daily podcast that covers this subject (the art of persuasion) among others, and he also has several books (Win Bigly, Loserthink, How to fail at almost everything and still win).

    So go ahead, be angry. You have every right to. Just don't convince yourselves that history would look the same but with some other person wearing the crown for the King of Kong if Billy didn't exist.

    Nobody I have seen has the right combination of skills.

  13. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    So go ahead, be angry. You have every right to. Just don't convince yourselves that history would look the same but with some other person wearing the crown for the King of Kong if Billy didn't exist.

    Nobody I have seen has the right combination of skills.

    I guess I'm still confused by this statement. What exactly did Billy bring to the table for "history" that would make the landscape look different today? I concede that the DK community might look very different without KOK and Billy's role in that, but the classic community as a whole would be pretty much identical, and the larger world of esports would definitely be identical. So again I question, why does any of the above about Billy's skills as a salesman matter?

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  14. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82
    I guess I'm still confused by this statement. What exactly did Billy bring to the table for "history" that would make the landscape look different today? I concede that the DK community might look very different without KOK and Billy's role in that, but the classic community as a whole would be pretty much identical, and the larger world of esports would definitely be identical. So again I question, why does any of the above about Billy's skills as a salesman matter?

    That is a good question. I should clarify. I am only speaking about the very narrow scope of Donkey Kong and Twin Galaxies. Not about the current state of e-sports or history, or people's enjoyment of games.

    I played and enjoyed video games for 34 years before hearing about Billy Mitchell and Twin Galaxies (2009).

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  15. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    That is a good question. I should clarify. I am only speaking about the very narrow scope of Donkey Kong and Twin Galaxies. Not about the current state of e-sports or history, or people's enjoyment of games.

    I played and enjoyed video games for 34 years before hearing about Billy Mitchell and Twin Galaxies (2009).

    fair enough

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  16. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    Nobody I have seen has the right combination of skills.


    Hmm.

    Top level play on a classic arcade game...

    Check.

    The ability to divert all attention to oneself at will...

    Check.

    Hair that looks like a mullet, but isn't...

    Check.

    An ego somewhere around the size of Rhode Island...

    Check.


    Man. I was born ten years too late, I guess.

    ;P






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  17. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco



    Hmm.

    Top level play on a classic arcade game...

    Check.

    The ability to divert all attention to oneself at will...

    Check.

    Hair that looks like a mullet, but isn't...

    Check.

    An ego somewhere around the size of Rhode Island...

    Check.


    Man. I was born ten years too late, I guess.

    ;P

    Willingness to throw anyone under the bus in pursuit of your goals? that's the key one

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  18. Rogerpoco's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82


    Willingness to throw anyone under the bus in pursuit of your goals? that's the key one


    Darnit, I guess it's time to cut this mullet...

    (Basically saying "I wouldn't do that".).(The bus thing).

    :)



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  19. fonzy_420's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco



    Darnit, I guess it's time to cut this mullet...

    (Basically saying "I wouldn't do that".).(The bus thing).

    :)




    All you have to do is be a Narcissist, a true one. Billy fits every single part of this role. But I'm not sure if I should say this, cause last time I mentioned anything like this Datagod removed my message like an adult and changed it to "datagod is awesome" with the reply to thank me for being anti-social. Yes, the one deleting my message and basically going "see/hear/speak no evil" calls me anti-social, classic.

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  20. The Evener's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    [snip]So go ahead, be angry. You have every right to. Just don't convince yourselves that history would look the same but with some other person wearing the crown for the King of Kong if Billy didn't exist.

    Nobody I have seen has the right combination of skills.

    The irony here is that this isn't about disgruntled jealous gamers (Mitchell's words) resenting Mitchell wearing the KoK "crown" - Mitchell himself is now arguing that he never wore the crown in the first place.

    Like a bolt from the blue, Mitchell revealed to the world in his Evidence Package that his 1.047 million score - the centrepiece of his fame in the film as the "King of Kong" - was one, giant, embarrassing, administrative mistake. That's right, you legion of "Billy Mitchell always has a plan" Twitter followers - your favourite gamer was never the "King" through the entire course of the film that introduced you to Mitchell as kick-ass DK world champion in the first place.

    Boom.

    That moment, where Walter asks Mitchell to confirm that he's indeed submitting the score, Walter confirming that it's a worthy submission, the website update, the tournament late in the film where Wiebe is trying to surpass the 1.047 million score, which is plastered on his DK cab as a TG world record, the subsequent inclusion of that 1.047 m score in Guinness as a world record? - yeah, sorry you didn't get the memo 12 years ago, but it was just one, giant, horrible mistake. And Mitchell - this is the toughest part of all to talk about - he was powerless to stop it. Well, actually, he had all the time in the world to stop it - it's not like was some TG johnny-come-lately or something - but don't trouble yourself with that point -- please. Just know it was mistake. A terrible, horrible mistake.

    So I'll take you up on your offer, datagod, with a twist - how would history look if we knew Mitchell's truth way back then - if Mitchell wasn't actually wearing the KoK crown in the first place, but it was Wiebe all along?

    I agree that the Donkey Kong community would be different today - and without a KoK film, it's very possible that Donkey Kong wouldn't stand out any more in classic circles than Defender or Robotron. I would also go a step further and say that for Mitchell, the difference for him - if we only knew the truth all along! - would be night and day.

    And all the hair and charisma in the world wouldn't make a difference.

    Disclaimer: I don't believe Mitchell's claim that the 1.047 million score was verified without his permission *at all* - it was just a clumsy, poorly thought-out "strategy" to remove one of his DK scores from the scope of the dispute review.

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    Updated 10-15-2019 at 08:40 AM by The Evener
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