something very simliar has already happen with garret holland
i think the analogy is, if one player submits even one fake score, they lose them all since they're untrustworthy. well if one imported scoreboard has fake scores, and further is shown to have used the honor system, then it equally puts everything in doubt
garret and i believe lauren tyler disputed many, i disputed a few of the scores from that source. if you are seriously considering allowing that to be grounds for removal garret has the full list
All disputes are handled on a case-by-case basis. This is to ensure fair and individual evaluation as well as to facilitate trackable record keeping documentation needs that surround a scores removal.
All disputes are handled on a case-by-case basis. This is to ensure fair and individual evaluation as well as to facilitate trackable record keeping documentation needs that surround a scores removal.
while we're on the topic of imports, something else noticed from that import which i wouldnt be surprised at all to find elsewhere. it was found imported scores that beat refs were either removed or never entered, but scores that didnt bet refs are there. if a system, that was imported from a magazine that admitted to just using the honor system, further had scores stripped that beat refs, that tells me they deemed the source unreliable when it beat them. its odd to simultanously find a site reliable and not reliable depending on how it beats. just something to consider if you decide to look at that group of scores now i'm about to say something that hurts the case, but hey, gotta say evertyhing i know even if it hurts me. there is one score from that sheet that i very much believe. i stronlgy believe (cant prove) the intellivision atlantis score is correct
well it is my style, and i on rare occasion have regrest, but come on, how many things have just been blamed on programming, if programming is that bad (and i admit it might be) then pleas consider my suggestion of actually testing things. for example, when closing a dispute test and see if it happened
you have done nothing to me, my frustration isnt with jace hall the human being, this isnt personal, my frustration is with how the disputes are being handled.
Well the system has a lot of moving parts and can run into challenges, especially since this specific system is the first of its kind.
It's unfortunate that it can create frustration, but consider that there is never any negative intent involved and there are just people trying to do the best they can.
There would need to be a dispute claim established for each score under question and TG can not file dispute claims. A claim must come from someone and a removal record / process established.
I do agree with you about wondering in regard to other sources. All we can collectively do is slowly work though it all step by step over time. Which will happen.
...but why? This is your site, you get to set the rules. Why can't there be one dispute that covers the whole set of scores, and if accepted, removes the whole batch as tainted? You're not being handcuffed here by some other authority.
There's no request for you to just go in and remove some random scores. It's a whole set that are clearly tied together in source and in trustworthiness, and it feels like busywork for EVERYONE to go in and dispute them all one-by-one.
...but why? This is your site, you get to set the rules. Why can't there be one dispute that covers the whole set of scores, and if accepted, removes the whole batch as tainted? You're not being handcuffed here by some other authority.
There's no request for you to just go in and remove some random scores. It's a whole set that are clearly tied together in source and in trustworthiness, and it feels like busywork for EVERYONE to go in and dispute them all one-by-one.
Adding to GibBirl's point, the scores that where just brought over from other sources weren't officially submitted to TG to begin with. Would the present TG start pulling all the scores off other websites? Doubt it. I'd say the reason behind that would be those scores may have been verified on their respective sites, but not by TG's policies. Same can be said of those scores just entered out of a magazine. Good thing he didn't start taking them out of Nintendo Power. There would be a lot of max out scores for a lot of NES games, most of them would involve leeching to achieve.
...but why? This is your site, you get to set the rules. Why can't there be one dispute that covers the whole set of scores, and if accepted, removes the whole batch as tainted? You're not being handcuffed here by some other authority.
There's no request for you to just go in and remove some random scores. It's a whole set that are clearly tied together in source and in trustworthiness, and it feels like busywork for EVERYONE to go in and dispute them all one-by-one.
Each record has its own database entry. Each one may be assigned to a different member account. Whereas you may look at a set of scores derived from one data import that may have some invalid data - it is quite possible that many of the scores are valid, attached to a members account, and they still have the evidence of their performance available to them to provide if needed.
If we just wipe out all the scores across the board, some individuals may not get a chance to present their evidence, or even know that one of their valid scores got wiped out until way later.
This is just one example of why. There are others.
When a dispute claim is filed, it generates a record of the event along with its resolution. It impacts the associated participants and original score submitter. It is important that every score is treated equally and uniquely.
Adding to GibBirl's point, the scores that where just brought over from other sources weren't officially submitted to TG to begin with. Would the present TG start pulling all the scores off other websites? Doubt it. I'd say the reason behind that would be those scores may have been verified on their respective sites, but not by TG's policies. Same can be said of those scores just entered out of a magazine. Good thing he didn't start taking them out of Nintendo Power. There would be a lot of max out scores for a lot of NES games, most of them would involve leeching to achieve.
actually scores were pulled from nintendo power, but when it was found nintendo power doesnt verify no game genie is used, many nes scores were removed, possibly even some not from nintendo power just in a "nuke it all" attempt
I just want to say it's great to see Jace having open dialogue with all the members. Also, I happen to agree with Jace that putting resources to upload some Pac-man score that isn't even on the scoreboard should be near at the end of the list of priorities of this site.
Videos of scores that are in the database is something I want to see. Looking forward when the first one is finally uploaded to the site.
I just want to say it's great to see Jace having open dialogue with all the members. Also, I happen to agree with Jace that putting resources to upload some Pac-man score that isn't even on the scoreboard should be near at the end of the list of priorities of this site.
Videos of scores that are in the database is something I want to see. Looking forward when the first one is finally uploaded to the site.
How do you know it's not on the list? What else do you know that you aren't sharing? Is the Earth really flat? Is time travel possible?
I have no idea what the significance of that Pac-Man tape is. Is it the "first perfect Pac-Man" by Billy Mitchell and that's why AD want's it uploaded so badly? I could care less about Pac-Man, but all the other tapes would be awesome to have uploaded. I also look forward to it when it happens.
I'm just wondering why members are deciding on an innocuous thread where Jace was appearing to do the community a solid by posting video game memorabilia to turn it into a bash-Jace competition.
How do you know it's not on the list? What else do you know that you aren't sharing? Is the Earth really flat? Is time travel possible?
I have no idea what the significance of that Pac-Man tape is. Is it the "first perfect Pac-Man" by Billy Mitchell and that's why AD want's it uploaded so badly? I could care less about Pac-Man, but all the other tapes would be awesome to have uploaded. I also look forward to it when it happens.
I never claimed anything about the tapes in that photo. AD's original request was to see the tapes of Mitchell's Pac-Man score, which is not on the scoreboard. He just happened to post a photo of what he thinks is the said tapes.
I'm pretty sure that the score you are referencing has already been removed from the database.
Not referring to any one score. Referring to the near impossible feat of trying to remove bogus scores and clear up the database. The dispute system puts all the work on the users to clear up YOUR database and then kneecaps them because they don't have access to the original videos.
Look at the Rodrigo mess. So many people have put in their own hours to show how that score is impossible, but the research and tests were only possible because Rodrigo uploaded a section of the video. With no video available it would just be another dispute sitting for all eternity. And this is a score from an active user who is on this site every single day and has said nothing. And the system puts zero responsibility on the person being disputed to say or do anything.
TriForce's Contra score dispute seemed to have simply ended. If I missed the transparent explanation as to what he did that was allowed I'd love to hear it. Instead we have Dave having private conversations with him, none of which were added to the dispute despite TG's "transparent" policy on disputes. That one dispute has lead many to believe that it's open season on leeching as TG never officially said why that score stands.
No one is asking you to match up the videos one by one to records on the scoreboard. People just want to see them. Post them all as part of a historical archives and the user base will continue to do your work for you by looking for relevant content.
I don't think that all refs were corrupt. I think they were un-paid and had a lot of stuff to go through and mistakes were made. Either by not actually having the time to view the content or simply from making a entry error. But errors are errors and they need to be fixed and as long as it's the user's job to fix TG's database please provide us with the tools to do so.
Actually, Triforce's Contra score was proven plausible by me. I did the best I could explaining why in the dispute. The time frame he claims I don't believe at all. I don't believe it's possible unless he hits the specific eye orb at a very high frequency and at an insanely quick pace but there is zero reason for doing it quickly. Add to that the pattern is random and changes at random frequencies means you can't just figure it out and wait. Then again, if you did wait, that proves further the time frame would be longer than what he claims.
Score is possible point pressing, but the two hour time frame claim is were I call BS and don't think he did it.
kyle, i'd really urge you to reupload the video to the dispute. referencing a youtube video that you since deleted really cant be counted as proof. I appreciate you put time in and are trying to see all sides, but you cant expect people to disregard the videos others made when you wont even make your evidence permanent. actually, even better then adding back to youtube, uplaod to tg. use additional evidence on one of your subs so its no extra sub points, then link that video to the dispute
Actually, Triforce's Contra score was proven plausible by me. I did the best I could explaining why in the dispute. The time frame he claims I don't believe at all. I don't believe it's possible unless he hits the specific eye orb at a very high frequency and at an insanely quick pace but there is zero reason for doing it quickly. Add to that the pattern is random and changes at random frequencies means you can't just figure it out and wait. Then again, if you did wait, that proves further the time frame would be longer than what he claims.
Score is possible point pressing, but the two hour time frame claim is were I call BS and don't think he did it.
Actually, shooting the orbs at an "insanely quick pace" won't net you the maxout as proven in my spreadsheet I made in that dispute. Matter of fact you don't want to be quick about anything at all when you leech that boss. You would have to double the cycle count to even get close to the maxout. Which is over 100 cycles and around a hour alone on that boss between the two difficulties. Also, the orbs are always in the same order so that isn't random like you claim either.
Yes it does net a max out. I didn't mean the orbs themselves were in a random pattern, but the way the orbs orbit and then change speed/rotation seems to be random. If you play the game through on Medium then Hard, there are enough cycles to max out the game if you shout a certain percentage. It's all in the dispute what I found out.
kyle, i'd really urge you to reupload the video to the dispute. referencing a youtube video that you since deleted really cant be counted as proof. I appreciate you put time in and are trying to see all sides, but you cant expect people to disregard the videos others made when you wont even make your evidence permanent. actually, even better then adding back to youtube, uplaod to tg. use additional evidence on one of your subs so its no extra sub points, then link that video to the dispute
The video was there for many months and not once did anyone comment on it. I didn't want it on my youtube page, so I removed it. Everything I did is written down. You are all more than welcome to do it yourselves and to confirm what I found. I think that dispute died down because of what I found. I don't have the video anymore. Everything I did is written in the dispute. There are so many cycles, at roughly so many points per cycle. You earn roughly so many points playing through on medium difficulty and hard difficulty. It's all there. I even played the game legit from the orb pressing and using save states to get a perfect scenario. I think I was able to shoot about 70% on the eye orbs doing it legit and was able to do it, just not within the time frame mentioned.
The only thing I don't believe is possible is the time 2 hour time frame. Hell, I even give you time frames how long it would take me using save states, every single round, knowing exactly what the pattern was and I think the time was 1:38 or 1:40 minutes. That is knowing the pattern and cutting back on all mistakes.
Again, it's all there in the dispute. I even confirmed the damage calculator that was done by some other people's post in the dispute to be exactly as they said it was. I shot the boss once between each cycle. It's all there in the dispute, video or no video.
kyle, do you have to pay for hosting of your youtube videos? i'm not understanding why you cant make it permanent. also if for whatever reason you dont want it on you youtube page, great dont put i there, put it here where it beongs
you wrote down a bunch of beliefs with no proof. others wrote what they found and even included video. the whole "i have video but i'm not gonna show you" is not proof.
did you miss the part that disputes are only decided on transparent permanet evdience within the dispute? what about your secret video is permanent or transparent? we're past the days of people claiming to have proof but keeping it secret
kyle, do you have to pay for hosting of your youtube videos? i'm not understanding why you cant make it permanent. also if for whatever reason you dont want it on you youtube page, great dont put i there, put it here where it beongs
you wrote down a bunch of beliefs with no proof. others wrote what they found and even included video. the whole "i have video but i'm not gonna show you" is not proof.
did you miss the part that disputes are only decided on transparent permanet evdience within the dispute? what about your secret video is permanent or transparent? we're past the days of people claiming to have proof but keeping it secret
I literally don't have a copy of the video. I deleted it off my youtube, and I deleted it off my hard drive. All the work I did is written down. The video was there for all to see for many months. I then removed it because it had nothing to do with my youtube page. I'm not keeping anything secret, it was there. I'm sure you and many others saw it was there.
Don't put me into the group of people who refuse to upload their ****. It was there for months. Pretty sure I don't keep anything to myself. I got something to say, I say it. I removed it because I had the right to remove it. I proved to myself that everything about that score was plausible. I wrote it all down. Not need for the video after that. I don't see anyone else doing what I did to prove a score isn't possible on Contra 3 by playing through the boss and doing what I did.
I have a question for you? Did you even watch the video? I know you where involved in that dispute and had to have seen it. Did you watch it? If you did, we wouldn't be having a conversation about it you would be saying "yes, you did all that. It all checked out with what you have written here. I guess this score is possible".
You can find a video on youtube if you wanted to check my data. You can literally check all my written data by watching ANY contra 3 video that shows the boss fight. It's all there. While I didn't think the score was initially possible, I prove it was...even the doing it under 2 hours like it was stated is possible but I highly doubt it.
I don't see anyone else doing what I did to prove a score isn't possible on Contra 3 by playing through the boss and doing what I did.
If you would of followed the dispute from the start you would of saw multiple people making videos and running various tests on that boss which is how I made the spreadsheet I made. One of the top players played through the boss using forward progression and I tallied up every last point even as going as far as adding up the theoretical "perfect boss fight" which is impossible due to RNG. You came into that dispute near the end of it asking questions that were already answered and providing info that was already provided. That isnt a bad thing either but it is a little arrogant to say things like the dispute died down because of yourself and that you provided info nobody else did when that isnt true at all.
11-04-2019 at 07:34 PM
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