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Jace Hall
11-04-2019 at 08:34 PM
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How many still stand? :)


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  1. Snowflake's Avatar

    actually to that effect, when others complained my tapper score went missing i challenged it myself. so yes i apply no vid no did to me to. so dont go assuming i'd be insulted when in reality i'd immediatley admit no vid no did applies to my own accoplishments as the record shows.

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  2. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Dude, what videos are you thinking I said are wrong?? Seriously, what videos did I say where wrong. I literally DO NOT know what vidoes you referring to as being wrong and mine is right? I don't know what you mean. Seriously, I have no idea what video of someone else's you are referring where there is wrong and mine is right. Please post a link to it. I do not know what you are saying. My video had nothing to do with finding out HP or even wanting to confirm the HP of the boss that others did. I used that data to know I could shoot the boss this many times before it would die. That is the only video I have referenced. Please post what other video you are talking about so this can all stop.

  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    i'm refering to the earlier videos showing the score impossible -- hey maybe they made a mistake. but your claim its possible and their claim its impossible contradict. i dont think you explcilty said "this video is wrong" because to the best of my knowledge you didnt debunk anything in the other videos so much as just give a contradictory response. give me some time and i'll go dig up the earlier video and comment number, because honestly, if you're finding really do contradict anything there thats a great path to explore

  4. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Hell, you dont even need to watch any other video than the guys who found the info on the Boss HP and it's all math from there. I just did the math by playing the game. I think it was the first 8 shots on the boss half the bosses life, then every shot by the pea shooter after that was 2 HP gone. They figured it all up exactly. So on medium difficulty, you could kill the boss after x amount of shots. All my video was was instead of doing that math on paper, I actually played and did it. I confirmed it. My video confirmed what math already did. Me making a new video won't add anything else to the dispute. I wrote it done, the video at the time confirmed it. That's all it was. There is literally no need for my video to remain on there, nor me to recreate another video of the same thing. It's already been done. The only thing my video showed, and any other video on youtube for that matter, is how long a cycle after shooting an orb takes. I think it was roughly 12-14 seconds. It's all there.

    So if my video does contradict someone else's video, then I guess they didn't calculate something I did. Or they didn't do it exactly as I did. Maybe they didn't do it for both medium and hard difficulties like Triforce says he did. The boss has more HP on hard, which gives you even more rounds to get the max score. I think the total number of possible cycles to get a max out on was 212 or something. It's all there. There really, was no need for my video anymore being on there. It just did the math. My written posts about my video is all I needed to do because it can all be figured out with math. I just posted my video to show people at the time it was posted how it can be done. I can put that in to words as well right here in this thread.

    To max out Contra 3 using a point pressing technique that would not be considered leeching.

    1. Start on medium difficulty.

    2. Get to final boss

    3. Use only the pea shooter.

    4. In order to make it point pressing you must shoot the boss at least once per orb kill cycle.

    5. Shoot the eyeball orb as many times as you can. Do this until the boss is defeated. Note: each eyeball cycle will earn you about 60-65K points.

    6. Repeat on Hard mode.

    That's it. That's the way to max this game out legitimately. The HP video, my non existent video prove steps 3-5. That's it. There it is. I give up. You win. My god this is ridiculous. Test it for yourself man. It's literally right here in this post. It's in the dispute post. Video or no video, it's right here.

    I am not going to talk about it anymore. If you want to talk about something, absolutely I will with you. No issues there.

  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    heres the drifters video that is on youtube, but still up

    zallard in post 204 explain how far you can go without leeching

    the explanation and video make the case the max is about 6 million. you are saying you can get the max that way (or are you not saying the above method yields the maxout without leeching?). Are there any issues in drifters video or zallards write up? legit question, i'm taking the word for things, its part of whats great about video, if anything they're saying is wrong it should be possible to show to layman where they messed up.

    since both of your explanations seem to go the same way, and the disagreement is how many cycles its possible for (if i'm understanding you both correctly) then the way i see it, we either need to verify your video (which we no longer can) or find an error in drfits video.

  6. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    deepest apologies, i meant dave. i'd go back and edit to fix it, but then the follow up replies wouldnt make sense. i was talking about him sending dave private emails that was only acknowledge after triforce made a video not realizing the emails showed up in the background of his desktop.

    your call, i'll edit the comment if you prefer, or leave it as is so the follow up confuison makes sense

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Regarding Dave and Triforce -

    Dave's position makes it a requirement that he have exchanges and conversations with community members. That's part of his job. As such I have no doubt he interacted with Triforce and others for numerous reasons - so the fact that there are emails is really not a surprise. It also would not naturally occur to anyone that there would ever be a need to acknowledge that there are conversations and exchanges between Dave and the userbase members (Triforce or otherwise) - the fact that there most likely will be communication of all kinds between Dave and community members should always be assumed.

    What I can definitely tell you is that there has been nothing that Triforce has ever said or could say to Dave that would have any impact on any dispute decision. So its hard for me to see the point of any communication between them as a "conspiracy" - because what could it possibly hope to achieve?

    In theory, the only thing that Triforce could say that would have impact would be items like:

    -Please allow me X amount of time to provide evidence to the dispute thread.

    - Please reopen the dispute thread (if it was closed) so I can provide evidence that I believe that can reverse the decision. (This is kind of what Billy's recent evidence package did recently.)


    Only the evidence found within a dispute thread can justify and dictate the decision outcome. Not an external conversation.

  7. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    heres the drifters video that is on youtube, but still up

    zallard in post 204 explain how far you can go without leeching

    the explanation and video make the case the max is about 6 million. you are saying you can get the max that way (or are you not saying the above method yields the maxout without leeching?). Are there any issues in drifters video or zallards write up? legit question, i'm taking the word for things, its part of whats great about video, if anything they're saying is wrong it should be possible to show to layman where they messed up.

    since both of your explanations seem to go the same way, and the disagreement is how many cycles its possible for (if i'm understanding you both correctly) then the way i see it, we either need to verify your video (which we no longer can) or find an error in drfits video.

    Of course. First thing I noticed is that he isn't single shooting the boss with the pea shooter every round. It's very tough to just get a single shot off. Any double hit on the boss is a round you lose to earn points. However, since I think you only need a hit rate of 68-70% (again, the correct number is in the dispute) having a few double hits isn't all that bad. Do it to many times and obviously you can't get the max out. His second cycle he hits the boss twice. Play it enough using a save state and you can tell. Also, the most effective method is to stand in the middle of the map and shoot left and right. Yes, you will get a hit a few times, but you will earn so many extra lives that it shouldn't matter.

    That was in the first 2 cycles. Is that enough? There really isn't any more to it other than that. Since you did post that video. Take a look at the time it takes from the second he shoots the eye orb to the time it ends and the next orb cycle starts. There is a second or two variance between this time for or against you at times. So, you have your time frame per cycle, you know the HP value and damage the pea shooter does (found by others, just reconfirmed by me because I used the info in my strategy) and each mistake costs you a round of point pressing (also stated in the dispute post). It's all math. My video simply did the long version of it, that's all. Yes I tested all possible orb hits and they all lasted the same window of cycle time.

    So, I confirmed the already HP value established by the people who did the research. I confirmed the score is possible by playing it out and writing it down. This video will confirm what I found. I confirmed that there is no way this is done in an hour and half like Triforce stated in my video and because of the math. For reference, time it takes per cycle multiplied by number of rounds to cycle before both death. Number of rounds before boss death is the HP value halved the first 8 rounds - 2 HP per shot after that...haven't doubled checked those numbers because again, it's all in the dispute.

    In my other posts in this thread I mentioned 2 hours was the declared time, which was inaccurate. It was an hour and half. Andrew Mee used my analysis which was conducted using other peoples findings and wrote his remark how Triforce may have simply thought it only took an hour and a half but was actually longer. Andrew also references himself making that same mistake a few times.

    The reason this video can't get to the max out is because to many non eye orbs/to many double hits on the boss took place.

    Updated 11-07-2019 at 04:42 PM by thegamer1185
  8. thegamer1185's Avatar

    So he actually was doing everything I was doing, it's just hard to do it effective enough to max it out. Not accurate, I did everything he was doing, just more efficient because I used save stated to make it that way. Still possible though

  9. thegamer1185's Avatar

    In the first 2 minutes he has already lost at least 10 rounds of point pressing chances. He usually hits the boss twice per cycle, which is 1 lost round per cycle. And he inadvertantly shoots the boss by accident or purposefully other times.

    Again, it's very difficult to just run back and forth and not shoot up but this how you do it. 1 pea shot to the boss per cycle and you get your maximum chances. I think I had a total point press time of around 45 minutes using save states to max it out.

    The 3 minute mark and the next few rounds after he did it perfectly. He shot the eye, ran in the middle, and I shot the boss. That is the maximum strat

    Updated 11-07-2019 at 04:52 PM by thegamer1185
  10. Snowflake's Avatar

    well also combine that with the analysis post, additionally post 349 has additional work by glen. Even though some double shots were in drifters video i believe the goal was to give us an idea and combine it with the mathematical analyssis.

    I should've been more clear that the video isnt the only thing that matters but the corresponding write ups matter too. by asking if thers anything wrong with the video i was talking about the method -- which it sounds like you actually agree with, tactical issues on drifters part aside.

    ok, so it appears everyone is on the same page on method (so we can rule out miscommunications there), you've beenvery clear you're on the same page triforce timeline doesnt make sense, now i guess its on to the math and finding where the disconnect is

  11. datagod's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    In the first 2 minutes he has already lost at least 10 rounds of point pressing chances. He usually hits the boss twice per cycle, which is 1 lost round per cycle. And he inadvertantly shoots the boss by accident or purposefully other times.Again, it's very difficult to just run back and forth and not shoot up but this how you do it. 1 pea shot to the boss per cycle and you get your maximum chances. I think I had a total point press time of around 45 minutes using save states to max it out.The 3 minute mark and the next few rounds after he did it perfectly. He shot the eye, ran in the middle, and I shot the boss. That is the maximum strat
    The fact that you had to use save states to max it out shows but you don't know what you're talkin about. The RNG makes it statistically impossible for a player to do it without using save states. Because you were using save states you knew where the eyeball was coming that's how you were able to Max it. So please stop all this nonsense. Read the dispute learn what people have already discussed stop wasting your time and cluttering up the dispute thread thank you
  12. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall

    Regarding Dave and Triforce -

    In theory, the only thing that Triforce could say that would have impact would be items like:
    -Please allow me X amount of time to provide evidence to the dispute thread.

    - Please reopen the dispute thread (if it was closed) so I can provide evidence that I believe that can reverse the decision. (This is kind of what Billy's recent evidence package did recently.)

    I have a theory:

    - Hey Dave, let me explain to you why my secret technique might be leeching but this is why it is NOT excessive leedhing

    - Don't listen to those troublemakers they are just out to get me, they always have been, this is personal a vendetta against me for some reason

    - excessive leeching is a banned tactic but that is up to the referree

    - no it does not matter that the personal referee I had assigned to me was my roommate, you can trust him, I only gave him tips (money) once in a while that had nothing to do with corruption and collusion

    The appearance of impropriety outweighs my faith in the system at this point. Triforce is a talented persuader. Look how he got Walter Day to come out of retirement and make an official statement about this score.

  13. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod
    The fact that you had to use save states to max it out shows but you don't know what you're talkin about. The RNG makes it statistically impossible for a player to do it without using save states. Because you were using save states you knew where the eyeball was coming that's how you were able to Max it. So please stop all this nonsense. Read the dispute learn what people have already discussed stop wasting your time and cluttering up the dispute thread thank you

    Maybe you should reread the dispute and what I wrote so you realize you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Using save states is mentioned in the post from the dispute. Maybe you will understand why save stating is necessary for something like this...but I doubt it. Your disliking of Triforce prevents you from seeing the facts I guess. It's right here boys. Have a look. Go ahead and cross reference the time per round with Zallards video...which I give full credit to in the dispute for the HP findings BTW. Everything I have written here can be cross analyzed with the video Snowflake posted in this thread just above. I do not need to make another video, it's all right here. My info and Zallards video. I can't find the post about the exact HP values but its there in the dispute. Have you reread the dispute? I may not remember reading all of the garbled **** in them, but I sure as hell remember how and why I play a video game. I may not remember everything I read or have all facts straight, but at least I'm just straight up trolling like you in pretty much every post you make. That is a fact.


    "Let me start out by saying I have confirmed that maxing out this game by POINT PRESSING is 100% possible. You must use both Normal and Hard modes to do it. Triforce has said he played in both modes, so that is great. Definitely a big plus for him.

    Basic numbers. Each 5 rounds of eye ball farming yielded between 300-350K. I tested this by first saving a state immediately at the start of the boss fight and killing the boss to get my current score at the start of the boss. I then loaded the state, completed 7 rounds of only orb shooting to reduce the bosses health to the minimum before direct hits are needed to damage the boss, then completed 5 rounds of eyeball farming, followed by immediately killing the boss during the next round. Compared the scores over 10 attempts to my score at the start of the boss. 5 rounds of EBF (eyeball farming) on average is 325K. 325K/5 rounds is 65K per round. So 65K is the average yield per round of EBF. If you die during EBF, the number is obviously lower. I using best case/average scenario for all examples. Each casual game play to the final boss yielded me on average about 375-450k points. So lets just say you earn 425K playing through Normal mode and bump that up to 500k in Hard mode.


    I have confirmed that the HP analysis done by @TriForce is no doubt a great Contra III player. I have no idea if he attacks the game full boar or if he plays it a bit more cautious. So I will just estimate it takes him 18 minutes to play through Normal mode to get to the final boss. 18m playthrough plus a 18m 25s near perfect EBF is 36m 25s TO COMPLETE NORMAL PLAY. Lets just say it takes a bit longer to complete Hard mode due to HP increases and patterns/etc and it takes him 21m to get to the final boss. 36m25s NORMAL PLAY ADDED TO THE 21m HARD MODE PLAY TO THE BOSS IS 57m 25s. Still have the point pressing to do and the number of rounds he needs to point press to achieve the max score. For easy math and based on my numbers from the third paragraph, lets say playing through Normal and Hard modes without the final boss point pressing points added to your score you had earned 1M points. This leaves 9M points to earn point pressing. Again, pulling info from the third paragraph and 5th paragraph, we know each round of EBF earns 65K and that there are 73 rounds of point pressing in Normal mode. 65K x 73rounds = 4,745,000 points pressed in Normal mode. Just over half the 9M points needed to max this out. So if you take the 9M pts needed to max - 4,745,000 earned from Normal mode point pressing = 4,255,000 pts needed to press in hard mode. 4,255,000/65k pts per round of EBF = 66 rounds of EBF needed in hard mode to max score. 66 rounds of EBF x .25 minutes (15s =.25minutes) and you end with a total time of EBF in hard mode of 16m 30s. So let's add all these times together. Remember, this is a perfect scenario of EBF; shooting the orbs within 3 rotating cycles, every single round, no mistakes, no added time for making mistakes, no waiting for the best scenario to shoot the orb. YOU HAVE THE 57m 25s FROM LINE 5 OF THIS PARAGRAPH + THE 16m 30s OF NEAR PERFECT EBF FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF 1H 13M 55S.


    Lets look at it another way leaving the game play times up to the final boss consistent of 18m on normal and 21m on hard. If someone was even 90% effiecient at shooting EBF while keeping the same 15 second time frame. We found it took a total of 73r on normal and 66 rounds on hard of EBF to max this score. 73 + 66 = 139 rounds. 90% of 139 = 125.1 lets round to 126 since you can't have a .1 of a round. So you still need 139 rounds to max the score and you now have only hit 126 EBF out of 139. That is 13 rounds of penalty time at 15 seconds per round. 13 x .25m = 3m 25s of penalty time. Remember now, you still need to makeup that 13 rounds of point pressing to still max the score, so that adds another 3m 25s IF you hit the EBF every time. Let's add that 6m and 50s of penalty time to our complete near perfect time and you now have 1H 20M 45S.


    It's just not possible to do this in 1H 30M. Even if you add 5 seconds of waiting to each round to be safe; 5 x 139 if you did it perfectly = 695 seconds/ 60seconds in a minute = 11m 30s of added time. Add that to the original time. 1H 13M 55S + 11M 30S = 1H 25M 25S of near perfect EBF. Again, that is with NO MISSES...ever. Oh yeah, lets not forget we are assuming you are able to ONE shot the boss each round. There are a possible 212 rounds of point pressing. 7 rounds of orb shooting per difficulty making for a total of 14 rounds cutting life in half. 66 rounds one shotting the boss to death, and since the Hard mode boss has twice the health the Normal boss does, you would have 132 rounds one shotting the boss to death. 14 + 66 +132 = 212. To achieve the max score in the above scenario, you would need to hit the eyeball at a 66% hit rate. Not to bad, but again my argument is the time. No way you are rushing this when you don't have too. And each miss is a double punishment for the miss itself and the round you need to make up for it. This can not be done in the time frame Triforce has said.


    TG has got to take Triforces statements, the most consistent statement he has made to this score, into account. And it has been cemented in so hard by Triforce, that him even hinting once that maybe he had the time wrong should be a huge strike against him. Adding to the his time not being accurate, let's just for simplicity say he did do it in an hour and a half. I would say he just stayed in Normal mode and did it. Giving him about an extra 20 minutes of time that he didn't have to use playing through hard mode to take his time EBF in Normal mode. So he wouldn't be lying it took him 1H 30M, but then it would have been leeching. Using TG's an argument against them when it comes to disputes, PROVE ME WRONG? What I said is much more plausible than Triforce saying he played both Normal and Hard mode in under 1H 30M at the impossible rate I just displayed above. So prove me wrong. I find it a bit shady as well, and actually like what @Jace Hall are you not in control. It's one thing for someone to say the tape is destroyed, don't have it. We can believe it or not, doesn't matter. Triforce is literally withholding information that sounds to me would have save everyone the trouble, including TG.


    So, Triforce is withholding how he did, there is no video evidence to dispute this score because it is possible to max the score. A technicality I feel is the only reason this score isn't being removed. The time frame that has been said numerous times by Triforce has now just been proved to be impossible, I don't care how lucky you are. Doing this as fast as possible, I had a lot of load states used because this wheel always starts differently, at varying speeds.



    With all of that above said, I do believe this game can be POINT PRESSED to the maximum score by playing both play throughs. Of course the community has to agree this is all legit and not leeching, but this is my thought on the matter. As mentioned above, you have 73 rounds of point pressing opportunity in Normal mode, Hard mode you have 139 (7 rounds of orb firing to halve the life, then 132 rounds of point pressing while 1 shotting the boss with the pea shooter) So you have 212 rounds of point pressing in total if you can shoot the boss with a single shot every round. So there you have it. Score is definitely possible, and probably fairly easy to do....but no fucking way is it going to ever be done in an hour and half like Triforce said. I already know miscalculation of time will be said isn't a reason to remove a score. No matter how impossible it is.


    Here is the link.


    Again, some of things I said in the video will contradict what is said here. This thread is what I meant and needed to say. I was getting pretty tired and couldn't really keep my train of thought in the video. So watch the video for the proof of damage calculation, how fast/random the wheel is, the lack of chance of death from mishitting."

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    Updated 11-07-2019 at 06:06 PM by thegamer1185
  14. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod
    The fact that you had to use save states to max it out shows but you don't know what you're talkin about. The RNG makes it statistically impossible for a player to do it without using save states. Because you were using save states you knew where the eyeball was coming that's how you were able to Max it. So please stop all this nonsense. Read the dispute learn what people have already discussed stop wasting your time and cluttering up the dispute thread thank you

    How much you want to bet on your RNG statement? I know damn well I could hit that eye at the pace required to get the max out without using save. It's not that hard to hit 3/4 or 4/5 if you are patient. It just wasn't known if it was possible and it is. Why wouldn't you use save states? Really, you are giving me **** about using save states for test purposes. You don't know what the hell you are talking about if you really think that is an intelligent statement.

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  15. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    Your disliking of Triforce prevents you from seeing the facts I guess.

    Fake news. I don't mind Triforce as a human being. I just don't like how he cheated is way into the record books.

    By the way, did you find your video yet? It makes zero sense that you would work hard on it, upload it, leave it there for a while then remove it AND delete it from your hard drive. Did you realize you made a huge mistake? Why did you delete the evidence?

  16. datagod's Avatar

    "Trust me. I did all the research, but I ain't gonna show you. Just take my word for it"

  17. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Page 20 of the Contra 3 dispute is where the claim that Zallard shoots the boss once made by starcrystas and ninglendo says once the health gets to a certain point it stops progressing. I believe Glen was referencing shooting the orbs does damage. We know it doesn't. You must shoot the eye to lower the health. Matthews statement regarding Zallards findings are accurate either. He isn't always one shotting the boss, he is actually hitting it twice on occasion. So that explains why in his 6M point run he wasn't able to point press as high. He didn't have as many rounds to do it in, if that makes any sense. It does to me because I read and also did the research myself.

    The post on page 21 has the boss HP values. Just compressing all the most relevant material here I guess. BTW, @datagod , you really posted some much needed info for that dispute. Actually, the first 19 pages are mostly people saying the score isn't possible, get rid of it. Even with Zallards math right in front of everyone, which posted below, nobody did the actually calculations.

    To me, the miscommunication is that people see this as leeching vs point pressing. Do I need to post any more information about a dispute with all the information already in it because I deleted a video I did just to show how I found my information when it's already there?

    Quote Originally Posted by zallard1 View Post
    This isn't even remotely close to how this boss *actually* works.


    First off, this is the thread I read back when I joined this website in 2008 that chronicles the leeching rules that were standard in 2003. If this was changed for console games or updated in a subsequent thread at Twin Galaxies somewhere, feel free to let me know by posting it in this dispute. For the rest of this post, I will be going off of this definition of leeching.


    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/109912-Official-TG-Policy-Leeching-v1-0-(i-e-quot-Hunting-quot


    Let's talk about the tactic displayed by Drifter's video (which Triforce confirmed was the tactic he used), and how it stacks up against the rules that were in effect in 2003 forward...




    So to be fair, technically there is forward progression if you just shoot the orbs and ignore the brain because the orb selection "technically" deals damage to the brain once the cycle ends. So clearly, this means Triforce was actually making forward progression and wasn't leeching then, right?


    Wrong.


    While it's true he was making forward progression for some amount of time, it ends rather quickly relative to the amount of time spent on the fight.


    Here is a video of the boss in question being played in the emulator Bizhawk with a memory address watch placed on the boss's HP value (7E0906). This is easily verifiable for anyone with access to any emulator that has this functionality.





    The brain phase of the final boss has a very particular unique mechanic to make fight not end immediately no matter what. In hard mode, he starts at 30,002 HP, but every time a phase ends after an orb selection, the game will cut that HP value in half and round it down, again and again until the HP value is less than 256. For reference, a single shot from the peashooter deals 2 damage.


    This mechanic is also present in normal mode and behaves exactly like it does on hard mode, although the brain starts at 16,982 HP instead of hard mode's 30,002 HP. This mechanic is also behaves exactly the same no matter what orb you shoot; feel free to test this yourselves if you care to further verify my assessment.


    If you never shoot the brain, it reaches the minimum HP value after the 7th orb selection, which for normal mode is 132, and hard mode is 234. The eyeball orb selection lasts about 10 seconds once selected, so that's ~70 seconds spent on actively gaining points in the fight. Typical players take about 5-10 seconds per cycle to aim and select an orb, but lets say for the sake of exaggeration, Triforce spent an entire minute every cycle selecting an orb.


    Totaling all this up, we have reached the point where the boss is at the minimum possible health at around 8 minutes and 10 seconds tops. Triforce supposedly spent over TWO HOURS on just this fight according to PJ's post, where not even 10 minutes in, he has already reached the point where forward progression has ceased and leeching begins.


    The referee who verified this run was clearly under the impression that this method of fighting the boss fight was forward progress based on Triforce's misguided understanding of the brain boss's HP lowering mechanic, otherwise this never would have been accepted given the leeching rules posted above.


    Based on this, this record never deserved to be on any leaderboard on Twin Galaxies, and it certainly does not deserve to be on any now.
  18. datagod's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185
    The referee who verified this run was clearly under the impression that this method of fighting the boss fight was forward progress based on Triforce's misguided understanding of the brain boss's HP lowering mechanic, otherwise this never would have been accepted given the leeching rules posted above.

    That was Lance Eustache, Triforce's dedicated live-in referee / roommate / best pal. It was rubber stamped, sure as rain.

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  19. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by datagod

    "Trust me. I did all the research, but I ain't gonna show you. Just take my word for it"

    Technically, I just did the math that Zallard already showcased to everyone. Don't need my video for that. What is so damn hard to understand about this? My video was for me, it's what I used to confirm my math that was from someone else's data. I simply posted it for the entertainment value and to help some people confirm my findings, but it wasn't necessary for me to post it. Go ahead and check it for yourselves. A full cycle from start to finish, as in from when the orbs first start to orbit to when the next cycle of orbs starts to orbit is 14-16 seconds on an fast playthrough. You earn roughly 60-65K points per cycle. There are 7 rounds of the bosses life being cut in half. At that point the boss has 132 health on medium difficulty, and 264 on hard. The pea shooter does 2 damage. Those are all the numbers you need to figure this out. The only information I provided was finding out a standard eye ball cycle nets you 60-65K in points. Period. The end. There it is. Why is my video the only thing you are focused on at this point?

    132HP on medium/2 Pea shot damage = 66 cycles of point pressing if you shoot the boss once each cycle. Don't forget the 7 cycles cutting the life in half. 66+7= 73 Rounds of point pressing one shotting the boss on medium.

    Medium : 60-65K points per cycle x 73 rounds= 4.38M points

    264HP on hard/2 pea shot damage = 132 cycles of point pressing one shotting the boss. 7 Rounds of cutting HP in half. 132+7=139 rounds to point press on hard.

    Hard: 60-65K points per cycle x 139 rounds= 8.34M points

    Perfect point pressing value - 4.38M on medium+ 8.34M on hard= 12.72M points.

    How many rounds do you actually need to get 9.99M points? Well, 9.99M/60K=166 Rounds.

    Percentage of hit rate needed to reach 166 rounds. You have 73 cycles on medium+139 cycles on hard= 212 Cycles.

    166 rounds to achieve max score/212 possible cycles to achieve max score= 78% hit rate.

    The actual point value from playing through the game with minimal leeching was only 330K or so. It was nothing. So the argument is would this strategy be leeching or not. If you shoot the boss each and every round 1 time, then no, by rule it's not. You progressed in defeating the boss. I think this how it should be done. Shooting the boss in between each rounds only once is pretty damn hard to do. I suppose since we know there are 73 Cycle before the boss must be killed on medium you could never shoot the boss until after the 73rd round. Technically you would have the exact same amount of points, but shooting the boss once every round compared to waiting until after round 73 is not even comparable to how more challenging it is. But what do I know about this game, I used save states to do all of this. Clearly I don't know **** about this particular game and sequence.

    These are all Zallards numbers. I found the points per round. That's all I contributed. I found that number by getting to the boss and dying. Got a total. Reloaded my save state (why the **** would anyone use save states, I don't know what the **** I'm doing apparently) and did exactly one cycle of shooting the eye ball. Then killed the boss with no other points scores. Got a total. Subtracted the two, and that's how I got the points value. Did that about 10 times. 60-65K value is the norm.

    So again, why the **** is all of what I did so irrelevant and why do I need my video to stay posted when everything you need has already been established and simply found a better way to do it?

    Updated 11-07-2019 at 07:26 PM by thegamer1185
  20. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Actually shooting the orbs does reduce the boss' health but only for 7 or 8 cycles. After that you gotta shoot the brain to do damage to it.

    Thanksthegamer1185 thanked this post
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