Originally Posted by datagod

That was Lance Eustache, Triforce's dedicated live-in referee / roommate / best pal. It was rubber stamped, sure as rain.

Correct. Still doesn't make the score invalid. A lot of **** happened back then, and as much as people want all of those things to go away because of how bad it was, it can't be done like that. Otherwise, all those scores pre-TGSAP would have to go because they have no evidence and/or were verified by refs. Triforce's score is very done, and as much as people want to think it's difficult, it really isn't once you get the technique down. If you can one shoot the gun, you got the hardest part figured out. Then you can sit and watch those orbs cycle for days if you want before you pull the trigger. A 78% efficient run nets a max out playing on medium and then hard.

Originally Posted by Ninglendo

Actually shooting the orbs does reduce the boss' health but only for 7 or 8 cycles. After that you gotta shoot the brain to do damage to it.

You are right, my mistake. However, my total number of rounds is still correct. 212 total rounds that can be point pressed by shooting the boss once between every round.

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

Then you can sit and watch those orbs cycle for days if you want before you pull the trigger. A 78% efficient run nets a max out playing on medium and then hard.

Yeah, playing a game for DAYS and not making forward progress...no that isn't leeching at all!!!

Dude, please stop. Your making my sides hurt from laughing.

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

You are right, my mistake. However, my total number of rounds is still correct. 212 total rounds that can be point pressed by shooting the boss once between every round.

Ok now, come on. You keep making simple mistakes explaining how something is possible in the game, you delete all your evidence. Why are you doing this?

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Oh, so you found a mistake in my evidence. Care to elaborate where it was? I did that stuff months ago. The orbs take damage the first 7 rounds, after that they don't. My bad for not wording it properly. I made a mistake in how I typed it. My mistake. I have no problems admitting it when I mess up. Still doesn't change the math. My evidence is in the last several post.. Go ahead and find a mistake with the math. Do you give a **** about the score even being possible to achieve or what is it we are doing here? You had a lot a of garbage posts in that dispute, but didn't add any evidence yourself worth noting. Everything is right here for you. The last few posts in this very thread. All you have to do is look at it.

I think your problem is it goes against your hopes of the score being invalid and you don't like it. Maybe it isn't. Maybe you got other problems, don't know. If that isn't the case, then what the hell are you arguing about? You aren't dumb. It's all right there. You do know how to add/subtract/multiply/divide right? Where is this breaking down at? There isn't even another way to say what it is. A spade is a spade, 2+2 is 4. This score is valid whether people like it or not. Move on.

Originally Posted by datagod

Yeah, playing a game for DAYS and not making forward progress...no that isn't leeching at all!!!

Dude, please stop. Your making my sides hurt from laughing.

I don't think you understand sarcasm.

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

Maybe you got other problems, don't know. If that isn't the case, then what the hell are you arguing about?

Well, we all have problems. For example tonight in Kung Fu class I laughed at something my wife said. She got really annoyed at me and said "maybe I'll find a new partner". The reason she was my partner tonight is that I am recovering from an injury and needed to ease myself back into things.

Later on I asked her why she was so annoyed and I laughed again. We will be OK though. We been through a lot together.

Back to the issue at hand. Your analysis is a day late and a dollar short. That is a polite way of saying you are just posting to be heard and to appear that you know what you are talking about.

Thanks for being antisocial!

Originally Posted by datagod

. For example tonight in Kung Fu class

Bill. Forget the Kung Fu classes. May I suggest that YOGA is the way to diminish all the angst of being a top TG troll like yourself. :)

john

.

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datagod liked this post

So since we're getting wakeup calls on how the Speedrun community perceive TG this week I figure this is worth posting to get the perspective from the SHMUP community: https://soundcloud.com/user-306325657/episode-xrd-part-2-shmup-score-verification-trashing-on-twin-galaxies-is-fun

At this rate we are going to be bickering about old scores with no evidence forever while other communities move on.

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I reached out to the speedrunners on Reddit. This was the most useful answer:

__________________________________________________ _

I'll tell you what: if Mr. Lopes produces a video, I'll look it over. I'll be happy to prove or disprove the proofcall. Until then, my stance is his time cannot be verified and should be removed.

With all the sincerest of apologies, I will not be signing up for TG. If they cannot reach out to me (or any other respected member of the community) to settle a proofcall they are terrible at their jobs IMO.

(If they want to PM me to discuss anything, I'm reachable via Reddit, discord JSR_#7768, twitch.tv/jsr_, YouTube.com/2gamers1nerd, or Twitter @jsr2gamers)

Which leads me back to my original point: the ineptitude displayed here is frankly embarrassing and I won't have a part of it.

It's Black and White. No vid no did. Simple as that. I'm not calling for his head, just saying this run should be invalid.

starcrytas thanked this post

Originally Posted by EVN

So since we're getting wakeup calls on how the Speedrun community perceive TG this week I figure this is worth posting to get the perspective from the SHMUP community: https://soundcloud.com/user-306325657/episode-xrd-part-2-shmup-score-verification-trashing-on-twin-galaxies-is-fun

At this rate we are going to be bickering about old scores with no evidence forever while other communities move on.

I just listened to the podcast. Both dudes sound like whiners who are overly concerned with potential hand health issues due to auto-fire prohibitions. If people like that say they don't like people like us, I'd wear it as a badge of honor.

Originally Posted by Garrett Holland

I just listened to the podcast. Both dudes sound like whiners who are overly concerned with potential hand health issues due to auto-fire prohibitions. If people like that say they don't like people like us, I'd wear it as a badge of honor.

Yeah, quoting the podcast:

"The biggest number 1 scrub identifier for SHMUPSs is if someone says autofire is cheating"

Yeah, being able to finger blast (HEYOOOO) a button for hours on end to perform a score is ridiculous. Auto fire is a no brainer. Seriously? They give TG **** for having scores from 30 years ago in the database and say they should be removed because no video, but they think not being allowed to use auto fire for world record runs is ridiculous? How the **** does that work?

How many people had home recording devices back then vs today? Those other sites haven't been around pre-easy access to recording devices. Why should they understand? And the whole auto fire thing...anybody can just move a damn space craft and never get hit if they don't have to worry about the endurance it takes to hit a button 10 times a second for hours on end. That is what separates the skilled players to the casual player. A casual player can compete against any skill player if you remove one of the most difficult aspects.

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the autofire argument has merites both ways. what gets me though, is theres plenty of direct feed, and if anything direct feed was even more common back in the days of secret video. how the heck was no autofire enforced? just guess? i hate rules that cant be enforced. so my biggest issue with things like the no auto-fire has nothing to do with the way the current argument is going, its more based on what the hell is the point to rules that cant be enforced? so if someone with great endurance and consitently able to rapid fire did a score would the refs remove it? if someone only put on autofire at key points was it accepted? sounds to me like just another rule that would come down to guessing that would allow refs to reject scores from non-refs while simultaneously, oh oops, didnt notice my fellow ref used autofire, accepted.

you can tell a run is no auto by strats used and firing patterns, its not that hard.

I always love the anti autofire from the people that dont play shmups, none of you know anything of what you're rallying against lol, tapping isnt the hardest part of the game, your movement, routing and execution are far more important. thats why people have gotten way over 10,000,000 on raiden without autofire, because their routing and execution are that good.

we shmup players give tg **** for it because nobody here plays the games to even understand the issue behind it and just blindly goes AUTOFIRE BAD.

get good at shmups before you comment about a shmup issue please

I think pearl really hits a point about the people who play. I know lexmark recently brought up redelds dk sub where he used wrong settings, but all the dk players were ok with it, so i was fine with it too. Also, rtm's galaxian where he used wrong setting, but everyone was ok with it, so i never launched a dispute.

i do believe the competitors should be able to decide how they want to compete.

Originally Posted by Snowflake

I think pearl really hits a point about the people who play. I know lexmark recently brought up redelds dk sub where he used wrong settings, but all the dk players were ok with it, so i was fine with it too. Also, rtm's galaxian where he used wrong setting, but everyone was ok with it, so i never launched a dispute.

i do believe the competitors should be able to decide how they want to compete.

Ofcourse people who use autofire want to compete by using it...there is a reason they use it, and it's not rocket science to figure that out...

To me, the autofire issue is true for all games, not just shmups. I'm personally against using it in all situations, but very well understand why people want it allowed. It has nothing to do with what is harder or not, but it's still an automatic feature like any other, and mashing is afterall a gameplay skill.

There are many games which require frame perfect button presses, which with autofire will make it 100% succesful, or 50% depending on the game. Button mashing for text can add up to seconds in a long run if all of the textboxes are autofired. You could also very well set up any kind of scripts to automatically press buttons for you. Holding down button X which will press A, B, C, A, B, C etc. for each frame, it's technically not different, if you look deeper into it.

That it "isnt the hardest part" should not be relevant in any of these situations. In a Pokémon speedrun, you have to reset lots of time in the beginning until you get a good RNG value for the Pokémon stats. A lot of people then say that "Just use a cheat code" or "use a hacked ROM" to always get the best Pokémon on your first go. If you want to remove the RNG aspect for the starter Pokémon, this is afterall not "the hardest part" of the run and is just a constant reset point, but it is still a part of the game you are running. If you allow it for one thing, then add it for other RNG elements as well as you would "just reset" anyway if the RNG is bad.

Though if everyone in the community is on board on allowing something, no problem! As long as everyone is on the same field, it's all good.

I would just like to point out the overwhelming majority of shmups were designed with autofire in mind. That's why they gave you the option.

In the Arcades, buttons wore out quickly. Having autofire buttons instead made buttons hold longer. It's one of the additional reasons why autofire is more allowed in Japan than in other regions. Another reason is that it will wear out on the player quickly as well. So to both save your button and your arm/hand is very understandable reason.