jace as much i like optimistic protocols i see a concern i'd like you to explicilty adress since i feel very simliar things have happened before

1. If everything looks in order, and people vote it through (per your recommendations here) and a subtle issue is later found with inp analysis and the score removed will people lose credibility?
2. If the above answer is yes i forsee a bunch of complaining since one point of view is that people followed the rules and were punished. Just consider the old situation where evidence had to be permanent but at the same time direct uplaod wasnt required. Do you have anything to say to such complaints which will surely follow?
if the above answer is no, then whats stop people from just blind voting all such subs through? what about people the correctly voted no, will their cred be restored?

Not trying to be a buzzkill, just trying to deal with a problem before it happens

1.) Yes

2.) There will always be complaining. Vote or don't vote. If someone gets caught cheating, all their scores get wiped, so they take the most risk. Doesn't really pay to try to slip scores past TGSAP to only get caught by DCP later. The risk of getting caught never goes away. If a reversal happens, the cred flips as well.

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I don't know how to say this properly but here goes.

Mame submissions go through by the word of one person and that person is the one that does the inp analysis. People just see that someone did the analysis and someone else then says great score or accepted and poof it generally goes through shortly after. As a matter of mostly fact the other scores mostly go through this way also. We still have a lot of blind voting and always will, but since the dispute has come along I have no problem with this process.

Not complaining as I'm ok with how things have progressed lately, just expressing my thoughts.

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I think we should have an auto validation feature build in TG back end for specific version of MAME.

One cannot cater for all versions but the most used versions are : wolfmame 106, wolfmame 183 (CAG Tournaments) and on DK Forum more gamers move from wolfmame 106 to later versions, here then choose some newer version like one of wolmame 212 to 220+ (latest for now).

Then at least validation can be done on the fly or some preliminary results can be done.

For any other versions of wolfmame used, the gamer have to wait for manual verification.

"Just because something has BEEN a certain way, doesn't mean it always has to be that way".

I agree with that statement, but I have to say, I don't really agree with this particular notion, no disrespect intended.

First, we have to consider what an .inp file represents.

Someone else will have to do that, because frankly I have no idea.

But the point is, an .inp file is required, and the standing precedent is that it has to be analyzed by a member trusted by the community to be correct before acceptance.

I am only guessing, but I would say that because there are so many VALID "sets/variations" on Arcade titles, it is very easy for the player to make a mistake and play the wrong one(I've done it).

I'm in accordance with JJT, I do think inp analysis should be "rewarded" in some fashion, as it is a required, valuable help to site members.

I'm all for the queue moving, but it just seems like this sets up more controversy/work on the back-end, that could be prevented with less work before it occurs.

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Man, there have been a lot of great MAME scores rejected simply because an INP file was not attached in the last year or so. Could those scores now be disputed in favor of a possible acceptance???

From what I gather, the INP mainly confirms proper dip switches where used and the version of Wolf MAME, correct? All other details like score and what not are visible in the video, correct? I know it shows the rate of speed as well, and I know some submissions have been rejected because the rate was not overall consistent, why is this a thing? I really don't know, but figured a MAME thread was the best place to ask :).

I've always been a little confused on the INP status and it's necessity in having a run approved. Should EMU tracks not show such settings as well then? Again, asking because I don't know much about MAME. I know MAME is an emulator for Arcade type games, not sure why other EMU tracks are not met with the same standards or vice versa. I know most EMU programs have settings that show these types of things like running speed and button inputs, etc.

Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

I'm in accordance with JJT, I do think inp analysis should be "rewarded" in some fashion, as it is a required, valuable help to site members.

I also agree that a reward is in order for anyone doing analysis. For example, 10 or 15 submission points per analysis be rewarded?

At the minimum the basic details that an INP view analysis shows would be better than nothing?

john

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.

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For a starter I am no expert in all emulators but did use quite a few of them. Below some answers to your questions.

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

From what I gather, the INP mainly confirms proper dip switches where used and the version of Wolf MAME, correct?

Yes

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

All other details like score and what not are visible in the video, correct?

Yes

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

I know it shows the rate of speed as well, and I know some submissions have been rejected because the rate was not overall consistent, why is this a thing? I really don't know, but figured a MAME thread was the best place to ask :).

Yes, but rate of speed is very important because NTCS and PAL roms run at different speeds and effect timing in gameplay. So in a shoot them up games milliseconds can determine life or death and could assist a gamer not playing at the same difficulty level because lower speed means more time to think and re-act.

So INP analysis do show:

*Date and time created
*MAME version used to record (Wolf or not)
*Settings/DIPs used

: This summarize the settings in English verbal terms instead of ON/OFF only.

Like 1 coin used, two coins used; & Lives 3; & Bonus 10000; &

Difficulty : Easy/Medium/Hard/Difficult; Flipscreen : On/Off

Nr of players: 1 or 2

*Recording speed (as a percentage, 100 being true speed)

*Single Keys press are used, only legal combinations, no autof ire is used

Originally Posted by thegamer1185

Should EMU tracks not show such settings as well then? Again, asking because I don't know much about MAME. I know MAME is an emulator for Arcade type games, not sure why other EMU tracks are not met with the same standards or vice versa. I know most EMU programs have settings that show these types of things like running speed and button inputs, etc.

Yes, should be, but bear in mind that some emulators have these built in and do not have the means to change it very easily with parameters but in code as with the case with MAME. You are correct it can be done but very few have the skill re-code an emulator. So here gamers should show full boot up, show the menu options chosen and show what the settings are for the game at start or end of game play in a continuous video to have comparable adjudication.

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How do you deal with a submission like this that got accepted without an inp file attached?

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214876-M-A-M-E-The-NewZealand-Story-Japan-Points-2-874-340-Daniel-Larsen

john

.

Originally Posted by lexmark

How do you deal with a submission like this that got accepted without an inp file attached?

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214876-M-A-M-E-The-NewZealand-Story-Japan-Points-2-874-340-Daniel-Larsen

john

.

If that happens, TG ADMIN will forcibly revert it back to voting until its added or rejected.

INP's are required.

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I submitted a game which I played with the WRONG settings (intentionally ) and a minute ago it just got accepted!

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214755-M-A-M-E-Sky-Diver-Points-13-050-Doron?p=1076937&viewfull=1#post1076937

I played with Hard difficulty instead of easy

correction : my other Sky Diver submission got accepted-my bad!

Originally Posted by Doron

I submitted a game which I played with the WRONG settings (intentionally ) and a minute ago it just got accepted!

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214755-M-A-M-E-Sky-Diver-Points-13-050-Doron?p=1076937&viewfull=1#post1076937

You shouldn't have done that. A "test" score is never a good idea. You could have discussed this point in a wall post instead of actually submitting. I remember a player that some years ago submitted a wrong score on porpouse just to test people, to this day I don't even look at his submissions and probably never will.

You should have asked admin staff to correct the rules or you could have created a new track with the correct settings.

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OK sorry about my earlier mix up.

This submission got accepted today and it's with the wrong settings (hard instead of easy difficulty)

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214636

Originally Posted by Doron

I submitted a game which I played with the WRONG settings (intentionally ) and a minute ago it just got accepted!

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214755-M-A-M-E-Sky-Diver-Points-13-050-Doron?p=1076937&viewfull=1#post1076937

I played with Hard difficulty instead of easy

correction : my other Sky Diver submission got accepted-my bad!

It is acceptable to submit a score with harder difficulty level due to the gamer get no advantage but not the other way around, like "easy" instead of hard. Good to point this out.

Originally Posted by Pixe Sukola

You should have asked admin staff to correct the rules or you could have created a new track with the correct settings.

I did that-I'm waiting for a response ..

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/214943-A-Request-For-Rule-Amendment

@Doron @Pixe Sukola I am waiting to hear back from Jace about me transferring the score the a new "Hard Difficulty" track I have created or having Doran resubmit (which is not the ideal option IMO)

I have created the hard difficulty track regardless and specified the original track to be identified as "Easy Difficulty"
https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/sky-diver/mame/

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Originally Posted by francoisadt

It is acceptable to submit a score with harder difficulty level due to the gamer get no advantage but not the other way around, like "easy" instead of hard. Good to point this out.

I'm not sure that you get no advantage playing with hard difficulty:

Sometimes playing in hard difficulty instead of easy can yield more points (for a skilled player)

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One of the main functions of INP analysis is checking that the player has used the correct ROM. This requires research, based on comprehension of renaming, reassignment, etc. There are max five active members who possess such comprehension, and only one of them is analysing INPs other than his own. Since he does not analyse all the INPs being submitted, various members are jumping in, doing half assed analyses, with zero research. The result is that submissions using wrong ROMs are being accepted, and it is highly unlikely that all of them will be disputed. Easy to watch INP playbacks essentially guarantee that this will continue to happen, more and more often. Now, the head custodian of this great website wants it to happen faster, as well. It's a good thing I've already given up on TG, otherwise I might be irritated by this latest nonsense.

Originally Posted by Doron

I'm not sure that you get no advantage playing with hard difficulty:

Sometimes playing in hard difficulty instead of easy can yield more points (for a skilled player)

Agree this depends upon the game of course, some games you will not get more points example rally, but some shoot them ups do

Nobody with half a brain is going to risk their credibility voting before inp analysis has been done.