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freeko
06-26-2019 at 09:26 PM
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Wall Entry at 06-27-2019 04:19 AM

Can someone clarify for me something about the original Legend of Zelda? With the wording as it is now, there is no mention of the screenwrapping that I would consider a glitch that is exploited. Also, does anyone have the video of Rodrigo Lopes time for this game? Something does not feel right about this time, and I would cite this video as a fairly reliable source for my concern:



What is widely regarded as the record, as of 2012 by other sources than Twin Galaxies, is a time that is not as fast as what Rodrigo claims in his record here. I would also expand my curiousity to the other time listed as being better than Tom Votava's run as well. For the time frame in which they were done, I feel that they were not possible without the usage of some manner of glitch (the aforementioned screen wrapping) to achieve the times.
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  1. starcrytas's Avatar

    I asked Rodrigo ( @Siliconian) about his Legend of Zelda speedruns before, and he insists that they are legit.

    I still would like to see the video, however, Rodrigo said that the tape is in his closet somewhere and getting it out and playing it and converting it to digital for Youtube upload would take a long time to do.

  2. Snowflake's Avatar

    if part of your measurement of impossible is that he was faster than Tom Votava I have to question your criteria. Was there some sort of rule noone was allowed to beat tom?

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  3. datagod's Avatar

    Is this the same Freeko that was supposed to buy Twin Galaxies and Empire Arcadia? I question not only your criteria, but your soundness of mind.

  4. thegamer1185's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    if part of your measurement of impossible is that he was faster than Tom Votava I have to question your criteria. Was there some sort of rule noone was allowed to beat tom?

    Kind of appeared that way for awhile. Anyway, what is the concern about Rodrigo's run? His time is 2 minutes slower than the best non glitched run by Dark Wing wasn't it? Seems pretty feasible to me.

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  5. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by thegamer1185


    Kind of appeared that way for awhile. Anyway, what is the concern about Rodrigo's run? His time is 2 minutes slower than the best non glitched run by Dark Wing wasn't it? Seems pretty feasible to me.


    haha i wasnt truly referring to the scores removed cause they beat tom, oh sure, there were some other reason to remove them like nitendo power not reliable -- freaking NINTENDO POWER THE ONLY OFFICIAL SOURCE OF NINTENDO scores-- while other bs imported scores stayed ,its just aquite the coincidence though that the older scores with no proof either way only needed subtantial proof to stay if they beat an expert. man thats a sore wound

    what i was really doing was through a rhetorical question trying to point out we dont do that today.

  6. starcrytas's Avatar

    Found some Speed Demos Archive post where Rodrigo talked about a possible sub 30 minute time with his strategies.

    https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/legend_of_zelda_speed_run20.html

    In the past, Rodrigo has refused to show any of his Legend of Zelda speedruns. To quote @Tompa

    "Not the first time Rodrigo has been a jerk really...
    http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,3957.90.html "

  7. Snowflake's Avatar

    i gotta say guys i'm pretty willing to go after people, and if you think rodrigo deserves it maybe he does. i definitley respect matthew. but the problem with having the trial in a wall post is it can just happen again and again and again. if people really have suspicions shouldnt they just dispute the score so that rodrigo only has to give his defense once? disputes stay open forever exactly for the reason of making sure people only have to defend themselves once. i know some people freak out over that, but honestly, i think its better rather than bringing it up all over the place everywher else

    Freeko, may i suggest you contribute to the site by adjudicating and earn the crediblity to challenge any such scores you have issues with.

  8. starcrytas's Avatar

    This 31:37 time on Legend of Zelda may be legitimate, but without seeing a video, we'll never know for sure!

    I remember asking some of the top players on this game on Discord and they said the time is possible without screen warping and other glitches currently used.

    As for the WR progression, this time was ignored because there is no video evidence and many people have questioned it on Speed Demos Archive.

    If you read the pinned comment on the video Freeko linked:

    " This is not true. Votava's run was beaten in 2006 by Richard Ureta and Rodrigo Lopes. Although both of these times can be seen on the Twin Galaxies leaderboard (https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/the-legend-of-zelda/nintendo-entertainment-system/ntsc-fastest-completion-1st-quest/page/1?ref=fbshare), neither of these runs have an existing video today, and Lopes' run in particular is sometimes disputed. Regardless, what I said in the video was inaccurate, so I'm sorry to everyone about that."

    I linked those SDA forum posts to show how resistant Rodrigo is to showing his Legend of Zelda records.


    My stance on the 31:37 time is that it is probably legit only because the top runners have said the time is possible without glitches and I also think that Rodrigo may have found some strategies and has been keeping them secret since 2006.

    I tried doing some TAS gameplay up to the 9th dungeon without glitches to see if I could beat or match the 31:37, but I could not beat or match it and decided that maybe a different route or strategies in dungeons needed to be changed. Didn't want to do any more research, so I decided to leave it alone.


    Of course, releasing the full video will answer the questions surrounding this time.

  9. Siliconian's Avatar

    The players must read this, the rules:


    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/the-legend-of-zelda/nintendo-entertainment-system/ntsc-fastest-completion-1st-quest/page/1?ref=fbshare


    Factory Default [1 Life Only! No saves allowed!]

    Special Rules: The timer begins when you hit start on the title screen and ends when you touch Zelda. UP+A on Controller 2 IS Allowed, but you may only use the Continue option! Entering Level 1, exiting and re-entering in quick succession to get the door to automatically open is BANNED! You must complete the game or your record/attempt will be disqualified.


    My record was done under this rules above! So, there's no warp glitchs or anything different, all in my run is strategy and dedication, lot of dedication.

    My record is 25 SECONDS faster than Richard Ureta record...Twenty Five seconds, we are nothing talking about 1 or 2 minutes faster, probably my strategy is the same of Richard Ureta, same dungeon order, same strategy, who knows? Maybe some lucky points as the enemy drop a bomb was very faster to me, or I kill a boss more faster than Ureta, who knows?


    I never was welcome in Speed Demos Archive website, I never submitted nothing there because of the haters and the staff of website, and this will never happens and his doubts will die with me.


    For the information of TG members, this already happened in Zelda II, the same doubt, the same impossible time, the same bullshit. Many guys talking is impossible a "human" finish the game below 1 hour. After 2 years of my record, the player Kristian Emanuelsen beat my record in 10 seconds.


    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/zelda-ii-the-adventure-of-link/nintendo-entertainment-system/ntsc-minimalist-speedrun-new-game-file/page/1?ref=fbshare


    Kristian Emanuelsen become a hero, and I received a excuse from anyone? No


    I will not talk about this issue again, please, contact Richard Ureta and ask to him about the videotape or strategy, probabbly is the same of me.

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  10. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Siliconian

    I will not talk about this issue again, please, contact Richard Ureta and ask to him about the videotape or strategy, probabbly is the same of me.

    Hi Rodrigo,
    This right here is why I oppose wall posts for this sort of thing, even though i know some people feel the exact opposite of me and think disputes should always be discussed on the wall first. If there was an official dispute people could check that instead of making new wall posts and continuing to bother you about this. I dont know if you'd prefer that though or if you hate the idea of your score being officially disputed. If you want, i'd be willing to launch the dispute and I'd word it in a polite enough way to point out I'm not accusing you of anything and I only want the dispute so you can defend yourself one time there and never have to defend yourself again.
  11. Tompa's Avatar

    People didn't like you because you came to SDA and bragged without ever showing anything, helping out the community or sharing strategies. No video, no record. For historical purposes, and general interest, I would love to see all of your old Zelda runs though. As mentioned before: You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide. Kristian, also known as Arctic Eagle, published all his records for the world to see. Of course he was considered more of "a hero", as you state it, than you. There is no real recognition without proof to the world.

    The runs on SDA, and Twin Galaxies, are long outdated and obsolete anyway. Those old rulesets aren't cared for anymore and the WRs are currently tracked at: https://www.speedrun.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda

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  12. starcrytas's Avatar

    Honestly Rodrigo, if I were you, I'd take the time to get the tape and transfer it to the Internet.

    It would clear your name from the haters and end this issue for good!

    Also because many scores from the old Twin Galaxies have come under question and the referee system didn't have the most trustworthy guys as referees.

    Again, if you clear your name, this issue would hopefully be done!

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  13. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas

    ...

    Also because many scores from the old Twin Galaxies have come under question and the referee system didn't have the most trustworthy guys as referees.

    ....


    sadly this part is extremely true. just having the old tg verify a score doesnt mean anything. thats not an insult to you, its an insult to the corrupt refs and system. redelf at one point reuploaded a bunch of old scores. i dont think anyone ever accused him of cheating, there was no name to clear, he just wanted to be transparent

    its not you players fault, its not even all the refs fault. but when we dont see the naems of who verified what, well with so many corrupt refs, we have no way of knowing if it was verified by a good ref or not and all scores become questioned

    please consider my offer to dispute the score for you, or you could even dispute your own score yourself, not to dispute it, but just to defend once and for all and never have to answer questions again.

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  14. starcrytas's Avatar

    Even though I'd like to see the Rodrigo Legend of Zelda questioning end, I won't open a dispute on this score only because it is probably legit and top runners say the time is possible without glitches.

    If anyone wants to open a dispute on this score, feel free to do so with a valid rationale.

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  15. Snowflake's Avatar

    actually do we know which ref validated rodrigo's run? perhaps they can vouch for tactics or lack thereof. There are some refs i would believe

  16. Tompa's Avatar

    Believeable judge or not, every single record without any public proof is up for debate because of human error. Incorrect timing, typo of the time or whatever.

    Other Zelda runners of the same era had cheated runs, TSA for example, who posted runs publically. Runs without videos are even more likely to be doubtful.

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  17. starcrytas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    actually do we know which ref validated rodrigo's run? perhaps they can vouch for tactics or lack thereof. There are some refs i would believe

    @Siliconian

    At least tell us who verified this Zelda speedrun.


    Also, does anyone have contact with Richard Ureta so we can ask him about his Zelda run?

  18. Tompa's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by starcrytas


    @Siliconian

    At least tell us who verified this Zelda speedrun.


    A bit of a late reply... But in a post here: https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive/index.php/t-116021.html Rodrigo mentioned that Robert has verified all of his Zelda runs. I was unable to find the WR announcement post, if there ever was one.

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  19. starcrytas's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tompa



    A bit of a late reply... But in a post here: https://www.twingalaxies.com/archive/index.php/t-116021.html Rodrigo mentioned that Robert has verified all of his Zelda runs. I was unable to find the WR announcement post, if there ever was one.


    For those who prefer the old forum thread look:

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/116021-WR-NEWS-Nes-Richard-Ureta-Makes-Zelda-Legend-his-OWN!

    I searched the forums using the TG search and could not find an announcement of the 31:37 record either.

    Looks like Robert ( @RTM ) was somewhat around to verify some scores. Rodrigo chose to submit to Robert. A month later after posting about 31:36, a 31:37 got approved from what looks like a retime!

    I hope the tape of this still exists somewhere for archival purposes.

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    Updated 07-14-2019 at 07:18 PM by starcrytas
  20. starcrytas's Avatar

    At 4:10 in the record progression video linked in the first post:

    "A considerable amount of time passed before it could be legitimately beaten"

    "it" being Tom Votava's run.

    Maybe this is why @freeko made this wall post asking about Rodrigo's time.

    "Something does not feel right about this time, and I would cite this video as a fairly reliable source for my concern"


    The only Legend of Zelda speedrun I know to be faked is Mike "TSA" Damiani's 33 minute run that was removed from Speed Demos Archive for splicing.

    Richard Ureta and Rodrigo Lopes never revealed their speedruns, so we'll never know if those runs are indeed legit unless they reveal their runs, which I don't think will happen.

    I have not been able to find Richard Ureta to ask him about his run. He went by the username "sleepz"

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