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Intellivision Master
10-28-2021 at 11:09 AM
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Intellivision BEAMRIDER NTSC vs PAL Please Compare for the Leaderboard

I noticed between Mr. Chris Dallari' s game and Rick (Rickster8 aka Weed-man)'s game, the NTSC version is faster and more difficult.

Mr. Dallari scores 13 Million on the PAL verison; the top score here at TG on NTSC is 50,000.

The game involves hand-eye coordination therefore slower enemies directly provides for much higher scores. It's the difference between just mustering 100,000 points vs achieving 10 Million points.

I made a comparison video; attached below. YOU be the judge with your comments.

Please note that on my video, Chris' video is flat and blurry; Rick's video is sharp and has his little blue Running Man icon below his screen.

Here's the list on my video:

1) Chris' sector 8 gameplay

2) Rick's sector 8 gameplay

3) Chris' gameplay - first 17 seconds of sector 8

4) Rick's gameplay - first 17 seconds of sector 8 (Rick's board is clearly more challenging)

5) Comparison re how fast the bonus ships are added. Chris' bonus ships are slowly adding. Rick's bonus ships are whipping through.

IMO it's a large advantage to playing the game on PAL. Therefore if the community agrees I suggest we request to move Chris' sub to a new track called "Beamrider - PAL".

I'm looking for confirmation from the community that the PAL version plays slower.

Thank You.

https://youtu.be/1c_L1ErXF4U

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Comments
  1. swaggers's Avatar

    I haven't had time to watch it yet but the current track is NTSC or PAL. So I don't think anything should be moved and if you want to make a NTSC only track then I'll happily fund it for you.

    There are also multiple scores so I'm not going to support moving 1 score to a new track just to clear out the first place.

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  2. swaggers's Avatar

    I would be more interested in knowing if they used original carts or if they used roms. There might be a issue there that we can look at. If you can do the gameplay side by side it would be much easier to compare also.

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    Updated 10-28-2021 at 12:06 PM by swaggers
  3. Snowflake's Avatar

    i watched but its tough to just eye ball those things. i'd have to put in alot more effort.


    lets for a second assume ntsc is harder.
    IF thats true i can honestly see either point of view. The current track allows both, of course splits as opposed to removal are exactly for that scenario, when the track allows multiple things that later decide shoudl be split out. Further, the reason the track allows both is the belief there is no difference, since the spirit of the law is explicilty stated in the rules, if that spirit is violated, the argument for splitting becomes stronger.

    Splitting can be justified. I'm happy atari has ntsc/pal/emu split. Splitting SHOULD be controversial though since it can be abused to split off everytime someone gets beat they can find some tactic or something -- not the case here since we're tlaking about functional differences, but still.

    A split is a little unfair to someone who played by the rules worked hardfor a top spot among many competitors, only to be thrown off that spot.

    What do we two about the2 pre-tgsap scores, just guess what they played on?

    and of course ultimately ,its not really our call, convincing us isnt what key, convincing admin is.


    make it a moot point

    swaggers hit it. make a new track. make it a moot point. i can get this might not feel optimal to you, if atari was still merged, i would very much want a split as opposed to just new tracks in additon to the anything goes tracks. so i wont be surprsied if this is unacceptable to you, just consider it before completely dismissing it.

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  4. swaggers's Avatar

    My issue with split is there are 8 scores. Some of which have no video. And the proposal here is to just move first place. When there are scores on the track, not mention scores that follow the rules which state NTSC or PAL, then I can't support splitting.

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  5. Chris 1-Bit's Avatar

    Beamrider is a scheme game, your enemies comes down with the same stage patterns. The speed is the same NTSC to PAL but if you anticipate and promptly kills the enemies knowing before where they are moving, you avoid many speed ups or shooting situations. In other words you don’t have to give them the time to move from their initial downline (in stage 8 that you brought as an example you’ll notice that I memorized those lines and don’t give the enemies the time to move from). From stage 40 to 554 that I played the speed is BTW crazy and the only way to resist 10 hours+ is, as told, to know before the patterns. Try to play like that, memorizing stage by stage and you’ll notice your NTSC version slowing down the speed (apparently) and your score improving. The number of bonus ships you gets is random; several stages of several games you don’t even get one. A record game must also be a lucky game in terms of bonus ships especially at the beginning (first 60 sectors). INTV cartridges are region free (except The Dreadnaught factor); I used an official INTV region free cartridge as shown in the many 1M+ game’s videos posted on TG. Thanks for your attention. Ciao


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  6. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    IMO most tracks on Intellivision state "NTSC or PAL there is no difference". However, I would be willing to bet that the writer had no idea if there was a difference or not. In addition, did the writer compare EVERY Intellivision game on NTSC and PAL? No way! I would be amazed if he ever saw a PAL Intellivision. This was marked on most tracks as an assumption.

    This comes from two sources.

    The first: I was playing the game for kicks early in the summer when they had the game contested at Atari age. I had never played it before. I played for a couple of afternoons and decided to look up the leader-board at TG. OK! Christian had recently loaded a 13 million point score. I watched a few minutes. I thought "wow, this guy really knows what he's doing" .... I also noticed "wow, he doesn't seem to be in much trouble getting trough the screens" then when the bonus ships were added, I noticed they were added in slow-motion compared to the game I had just been playing for two days. Then I compared a sector of play. Mine vs his. On mine, I was scrambling to avoid enemies. On his, he was comfortably hitting targets, not avoiding very much compared to the onslaught on my game. And I'm comparing the same sector - because the game gets harder as you go along.

    With respect, If I had the PAL version, within a week, I would be uploading the same 13 million points, with not much struggle.

    The Second: I was listening to the Intellivisionaries podcast and this exact issue came up. I can load a tape of the conversation whereby Paul states that he watched a portion of his friend's Frogger game playing it in on PAL in the UK and it played significantly slower than the NTSC version. He deduced that "some" Intellivision games play slower on the PAL version of the carts. I will load the portion of the tape here when I get a chance.

    As always, I'm just looking for fair (equal) playing conditions for everyone.

    Thank You.

  7. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Yes Christian, you did great on your game! But it's playing slower and easier.

    Sector 8 doesn't require any memorization. It's very straight-forward.

    I don't get how a guy inserts "NTSC / PAL there is no difference" in the early 80's and that becomes the bible when it's shown that there is a difference (at least on some games).

  8. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Yes, I can load them side by side on video but dude, I don't have time. This already took the bulk of my day. I don't have time.

  9. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Christian, you're stating that the cart tells you it is "region-free"; but that says nothing about comparing the speed of play comparing the hardware. It just means both machines can play the same cart.

  10. RaGeNyC's Avatar

    I remember posting the vzaar to his submission thread, but I never got around to watching his game. Looking at it now, it's clearly slower. I went deep into his game, and it seems like the difficulty never got past, like maybe, Sector 10's difficulty (maybe lower). I played this game a lot on all platforms--Things start heating up after Sector 10, and when you get into the teen sectors, things get crazy. His game never got crazy. It almost seems a bit leisurely.


    All that said, I've seen several situations where a video that was super-compressed (which his would be, being such a long video) will look much slower. I saw the compressed gameplay of an OutRun game not too long ago on here--not sure why it was so compressed, since the game wasn't that long-- The compressed gameplay looked like the guy was out for a Sunday drive. I brought it up to him and he uploaded the uncompressed video....He was flying along.


    This should be is an instance like that. Because really, NTSC and PAL are supposed to be identical on the Inty---And he does appear to use a regular Inty and Beamrider cart.



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  11. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    In my experience, when a video slows down due to compression, the sound goes off-synch. In his video, the sound remains in-synch. Christian also does not defend the speed of his game looking slower than "normal" and offering that it looks slower due to compression. He defends his video "as-is".

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  12. Chris 1-Bit's Avatar

    First of all my Beamrider box is NTSC and so the cart I played. Pics available to your email address eventually.

    The PAL hardware has IMHO nothing to do, told on my gaming experience.

    I disagree on your opinion because I exactly know that the first 10 days of play my record points was 30.000.

    The step from 30.000 to 100.000 looked to me something impossible.

    But when you get there you’ll notice that everything gets almost automatic in reaching higher and higher scores and the only reason is that you get used to high speeds and same patterns.

    500.000 looked the highest I could reach but I realizd that everything rwas repeating on and on.

    look really I’m not here to convince you but sure I know you are totally wrong.

    if you want to split the record and have one for Americans, do that no problem but as told you are out of way.

    ciao

    .

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  13. Chris 1-Bit's Avatar

    Ah last thing… I love USA but why you Americans never accept that someone in the world can be better than you, is something I never understood

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  14. Snowflake's Avatar

    woh woh woh Al isnt even american, he's Canadian. You're looking at the Canadian superior complex there

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  15. Chris 1-Bit's Avatar

    In case you split please cancel my record

  16. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 1-Bit

    In case you split please cancel my record


    this is a valid complain about a split. people submit under one track and have their scores moved to another. splitting really isnt as simple a solution as it can sound

  17. Chris 1-Bit's Avatar

    I don’t wanna be part of this community. also cancel Burgertime please both scores

  18. Chris 1-Bit's Avatar

    I’m canceling from my IG profile. I don’t want to have anything to do with Twin Galaxies community

  19. Snowflake's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 1-Bit

    I don’t wanna be part of this community. also cancel Burgertime please both scores


    noone can force you to stay, but you might be jumping the gun here. theres always gonna be one or two people who offend you, why not wait and see what happens? i'm guessing the split wont happen.

  20. Intellivision Master's Avatar


    Christian - Relax man!

    We're just discussing the issue ... and it appears that nothing will be moved anyway.

    Chill !!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 1-Bit

    I’m canceling from my IG profile. I don’t want to have anything to do with Twin Galaxies community

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