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Jace Hall
05-23-2022 at 04:14 PM
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TG Top Priorities...

Wanted to get some community perspective on this.

Please list what YOU think TG's TOP 3 priorities should be for the next 3 months.

For clarity, my asking this does not mean that TG will necessarily agree with the prioritization presented, but regardless - What is YOUR opinion?

Let's go! :)


Comments
  1. datagod's Avatar

    One more thing: a live chat / water cooler area to chit chat

    We all know the Donkey Kong Forum has a "chatbox". Despite its primitive implementation and restricted screen size, it keeps people coming back for daily updates.

    Just like we have the "recent activity" box on the side (I love it) I think it would be good to have a small live chat area which could be expanded.

    Now, I primarily use TG on my PC. Perhaps the current design was created with mobile in mind.

  2. Fly's Avatar

    1. Slow down adjudication time. Shtuff goes through too fast!

    2. Stiffer penalties for voting wrong.

    3. Same as 1 & 2.

    Fly

  3. Intellivision Master's Avatar

    Stiffer penalties will make it worse. Those who call out a bad score get crucified as-it-is because blind voters lose credibility! The blind voters defend their vote just to save credibility. Which defeats the purpose of us all being “adjudicators”. The penalty should be milder … this way blind voters can just agree with straight forward logic. Calling out a score shouldn’t lead to a civil war. It should be a quick, breezy process.

    How about this… “A player may disqualify his/her own score” when a formal dispute is brought or if there’s a dispute during the adjudication process. That would save a ton of battlefield fighting. I find that even when a player wants to remove his own score, the civil war continues. Really? You have to ask …. WHY?

    Let’s get the “high-school” mentality out of this place. Let’s make it welcoming for everyone to be at TG.

    Ps) Hi Fly! Long time brother!


    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    1. Slow down adjudication time. Shtuff goes through too fast!

    2. Stiffer penalties for voting wrong.

    3. Same as 1 & 2.

    Fly

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  4. JJT_Defender's Avatar

    1. For a long time the the submission que was out of control had as much as 140 plus pages 1,400 Twin Galaxies members video game submissions

    1a. Currently there are 13 pages x 12 = 156 video game submission's many TG members and new members were frustrated because of it.

    1b. Maybe slow down the pace of adjudication and let Twin Galaxies members check over their past voted video game submissions by TG members.

    2.Stiffer penalties for voting wrong. answer No way, wow too too many Twin Galaxies members would really get mad we would have many more complaints about credibility point lost.

    I had 104 wrong

    56 with Roscoe group of players for missing 3rd party video site of their gaming achievements either removed or cannot view.

    20 for PAL Starsoildier video game submissions

    5 when I just overlooked and instead voted yes and on my own video game submission were I said to everyone to vote no.

    + PLUS 5 + 14 = 19

    19 total: Also, I did it recently this year 2022 and past a total of 19 of Twin Galaxies members video game submissions the submitter clearly replied and ask TG members to vote no and never going back to check back and got penalized because my oversight.

    4-5 That were completely right and the submitter and other TG members agreed but even when they were overturned Twin Galaxies never reinstated the credibility points back.

    JJT_DEFENDER
    SUBMISSIONS - ACCEPTED (555)
    SUBMISSIONS - REJECTED (69)
    FOUNDED TRACKS (1,057 SP DONATED)
    RIGHT VOTES (33,885 VOTES)
    WRONG VOTES (104 VOTES)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fly

    1. Slow down adjudication time. Shtuff goes through too fast!

    2. Stiffer penalties for voting wrong.

    3. Same as 1 & 2.

    Fly

    Updated 05-31-2022 at 12:36 AM by JJT_Defender
  5. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by timmell

    1. Promote and showcase the gamers and their performances. On this website. Support the scoreboard 1st. (don't limit the promotion to Facebook/ social media,etc. Some of us don't want Facebook to track us.

    2. "Twin Galaxies Entertainment Festival pt 2", Or The Twin Galaxies World Championship (All encompassing Video Game Championship "VGC")

    3. Maybe a list mode on website of games with two Many tracks, when browsing. Example Games like racing games, Angry birds.


    I agree with many of you, Settle needs a return. Just need the energy/ excitement around here to make it happen.


    Crazy wish list. - 4. change ESI calculation, for site wide leaderboard. 5 (cough, cough). Appointment or election of commissioner on rules and regulations related issues on the scoreboard, that communicates with the masses on a regular basis.

    1.) We do this literally everyday on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. We only share those posts on TG itself occasionally because sharing them all here would completely crush the wall feed with too many updates. (We post at least 5 times a day M- F across those platforms)

    The posts reach a lot of people and the appreciation and greater understanding of Twin Galaxies achievements is measurably growing.

    I've been observing that there are different kinds of Twin Galaxies' audiences. For example, there are those who want to sign up here and directly participate/achieve - and there are those that simply want to see all the achievements/highlights and have that content presented to them in digestible/understandable ways. This later group is growing quite a bit, which makes sense, as it is common for a spectating audience to always be much larger than the core participants - and honestly, until recently they have never really had the opportunity to discover Twin Galaxies in this way.

    In any case Twin Galaxies is currently showcasing the gamers and their performances much more than it ever has in its entire history at this point. In the last 28 days, our posts have had over 300K direct engagements on Facebook alone.

    2.) I agree. Something like this needs to happen. It's definitely on the list.

    3.) This speaks to a general UI improvement for the site. That is in the plan for certain!

    4.) Idea noted.

    5.) Agree that more communication with the masses on a regular basis is needed. It will come.

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  6. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by wwdkong

    I wasn't gonna bring it up cuz I've only seen 1 or 2 others mention it, but I know it would help me out a lot...

    The full titles for submissions used to include the original submitter's name, which helped me out a lot in going through the posts faster, because I'd recognize way more submissions that way & I wouldn't have to click on nearly as many.

    Example--presently the submissions are shown this way--

    Android - Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia - Quest - Abyss β - Abyss β Stratum 2: Abyss β 2-6 - 309,436

    --and when someone else comments, we can't see in the shoutbox or "recent activity" who the original submitter was. They used to read like this--

    Android - Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia - Quest - Abyss β - Abyss β Stratum 2: Abyss β 2-6 - 320,544 - Rodrigo Lopes

    --which was awesome because I usually knew whether I wanted to open it or not. I would LOVE to get that back. Thanks.

    This was changed for privacy reasons. We can not change thread names on-the-fly when people toggle name hiding off and on. So the default for threads needed to not include names directly in them.

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  7. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogerpoco

    We do need a few more instant reactions to things.

    Agreed. This is on the list as part of an overall UI upgrade we would like to do.

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  8. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwyer138

    The same thing occurs when a player has an existing score, makes a new submission for a higher score, then the new submission is rejected, the existing score disappears.

    This should not happen at all. @admin staff says that this statement is untrue. Are you certain that this scenario actually takes place? @admin staff ARE YOU SURE that @sdwyer138 is mistaken?

  9. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82

    1) finally dealing with this inactive dispute that should be active but can't be. I was told to post in it and it would be dealt with and crickets...

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/195546-Dispute-Patrick-Stanley-Game-Boy-Game-Boy-Color-Super-Mario-Land-2-6-Golden-Coins-Fastest-Completion-TGTS-Player-Patrick-John-Fenton-Jr-Score-41-40-0

    Reactivated for community review.

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  10. admin staff's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Whilethekidsareaway

    Still waiting on this to be fixed, https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/240677 I think that if one player that is named votes no it should take it out of the voting queue.

    This issue is permanently fixed.

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  11. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Whilethekidsareaway



    Thank you for removing it from the queue but how do we get it off our personal board?

    This was addressed. Correct?

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  12. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by LAH16

    I have a suggestion. Change time scores so that you are able to submit time scores of 0:0.0. I recently just submitted a run of the Catcher Chocobo minigame in Final Fantasy X on PlayStation 2 and the best possible score you can achieve in that game is 0:0.0 but you aren't able to do so. The closest you can do is put 001 in the millisecond slot. So again, a suggestion I'd like to just throw out there is changing time scores so that you can submit 0:0.0 time score runs as a priority.


    Here is a link to my run so that everyone can see that it is possible to achieve time scores of 0:0.0 in a video game.


    PlayStation 2 - Final Fantasy X - NTSC - Catcher Chocobo [Best Final Time] - 00.001 (twingalaxies.com)

    Being worked on now. Thx. Unfortunately it's a bigger work effort to address that would seem on the surface. Not a quick fix.

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  13. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    echoing sean but perhaps from a different angle. You seem, jace, to ask for additional examles, but i'm not sure what purpose that serves if you dont agree with the point of those examples.

    can you elaborate why you dont see this as a problem? I see basicaly two problems from this
    1. when a bad score is surpassed it cant be disputed. the main downside of this is people dont get their cred back. you know well how sensitive people are about this. some complaints are valid some are just sore looser talk but at the end of the day both are negative feelings towards TG.
    2. the main point brought up. when a bad score is removed the real score doesnt replace it. frankly i'm not following why you dont follow that this is a problem. Do you believe if someone has a good score, then a higher bad score, that TG is better off having no score? it would seem to me tg is better of having the highest confirmed score

    This is a more lengthy conversation that this thread is not intended for. We can discuss more fully later, but here are some quick responses.

    For point#1 - That's life.

    For point #2 - This gets into a wider discussion about the role of an active competitive leaderboard and what it should and should not represent at TG as it moves forward.

    As things progress there will need to be a conceptual split between an authenticated video game achievement and an active leaderboard score entry.

    While it is true that an active TG leaderboard score entry must always be an authenticated achievement submission, it is not true that every authenticated achievement submission must be on an active TG leaderboard.

    This will become especially true of bounties and TG Event results in the future.

    With that being said, I am not convinced that players who are attempting to compete on a TG leaderboard should be forced to compete with scores that are not present on the leaderboard itself. Allowing a player's previous score to reappear on the leaderboard if their current score on the leaderboard is deemed invalid would mean that competing players are not just competing with the player's score they saw on the current leaderboard, they are also competing with every score that player may have ever submitted to that leaderboard.

    Certainly, that is one approach to take - however I am not convinced that is the best approach and have been thinking through the true ramifications of that on a competitive landscape over the longer term.

    It may be better policy to make the last verified score a player has on an active leaderboard represent their position and if that score is removed, they lose their position until they choose to re-submit. They may choose not to.

    This might give the TG leaderboards more of a tournament characteristic that may be more optimal in terms of interaction and competitive play.

    By "tournament" characteristic, the example I would use is that if you scored 100 points in tournament X on Dec 15th 2019, that score doesn't carry over to tournament Y on Jan 15 2020 if you scored only 70 points or got disqualified. Your previous 100 point performance doesn't serve as your "auto back up."

    What would come with TG leaderboards that work like this of course is a need to be able to show ALL of a players verified score submissions on their user profile page. That way there is always a total viewable record of a players accomplishments (this doesnt exist now). We are going to need this capability for the Bounty system anyway.

    Its obviously a longer conversation which we all can have when I set up the TG Zoom sessions or whatever - but that is at least part of the "short" answer as to why I may not be fully convinced yet. More thinking is needed of course.


  14. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall

    With that being said, I am not convinced that players who are attempting to compete on a TG leaderboard should be forced to compete with scores that are not present on the leaderboard itself. Allowing a player's previous score to reappear on the leaderboard if their current score on the leaderboard is deemed invalid would mean that competing players are not just competing with the player's score they saw on the current leaderboard, they are also competing with every score that player may have ever submitted to that leaderboard.

    Why would this be a problem? Let's say I score 150,000 on a game and years later it is determined I used the wrong controller. I didn't realize it, so it's seen as an error, not cheating and the score is removed. My previous best was 120,000. In the meantime, people have been working on beating my 150,000 and now suddenly have a score of 120,000 left. Where's the problem? The previous score will always be lower/slower.

    I can't think of another respected competitive organization where this would fly. Track star X runs a 9.63 one year in the 100. Then the next year he runs 9.57 breaking the WR. it's later determined the wind was outside of the legal bounds, so he no longer has his 9.57, but it's not like his 9.63 (and all other previous runs get wiped). It would be absurd.

    It would also potentially punish people for boundary pushing (something that is really useful in further solidifying and specifying rulesets and accepted game play). A tactic is used and pushes the score higher, the score is accepted. It is later removed because it is determined it didn't follow the rules as stated, but said player is no longer active (or alive). The leaderboard now ceases to be historical because someone was pushing a game to it's limits? That doesn't seem like the sort of thing that will bring in or keep new players.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall

    Certainly, that is one approach to take - however I am not convinced that is the best approach and have been thinking through the true ramifications of that on a competitive landscape over the longer term.

    Why? As mentioned above, there are so many respected competitive organizations that have already been operating with the model of previous scores/times/whatever don't disappear because of rule red-tape. I'm failing to see ramifications that would occur to a historical leaderboard. The ramifications of previous scores disappearing as a result of bureaucracy though seem clear...it ceases to be historical

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  15. LAH16's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    Being worked on now. Thx. Unfortunately it's a bigger work effort to address that would seem on the surface. Not a quick fix.

    Thank you very much.

  16. Excelliron's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag82


    Why would this be a problem? Let's say I score 150,000 on a game and years later it is determined I used the wrong controller. I didn't realize it, so it's seen as an error, not cheating and the score is removed. My previous best was 120,000. In the meantime, people have been working on beating my 150,000 and now suddenly have a score of 120,000 left. Where's the problem? The previous score will always be lower/slower.

    I can't think of another respected competitive organization where this would fly. Track star X runs a 9.63 one year in the 100. Then the next year he runs 9.57 breaking the WR. it's later determined the wind was outside of the legal bounds, so he no longer has his 9.57, but it's not like his 9.63 (and all other previous runs get wiped). It would be absurd.

    It would also potentially punish people for boundary pushing (something that is really useful in further solidifying and specifying rulesets and accepted game play). A tactic is used and pushes the score higher, the score is accepted. It is later removed because it is determined it didn't follow the rules as stated, but said player is no longer active (or alive). The leaderboard now ceases to be historical because someone was pushing a game to it's limits? That doesn't seem like the sort of thing that will bring in or keep new players.



    Why? As mentioned above, there are so many respected competitive organizations that have already been operating with the model of previous scores/times/whatever don't disappear because of rule red-tape. I'm failing to see ramifications that would occur to a historical leaderboard. The ramifications of previous scores disappearing as a result of bureaucracy though seem clear...it ceases to be historical


    Also, what about death and incapacitation and things like that. Say Robbie Lakeman (god forbid) was taken from us in a tragedy, and then later on his DK WR is disputed due to no sound or some other issue on that one recording alone, Robbie actually had a couple DK WR's he had set before he set the last bar so high, he would still be the WR holder if that last submission were successfully disputed, but under what Jace seems to be describing all his DK history would be wiped from the scoreboards. And since he's dead in this scenario there is no resubmitting.

    **Robbie if you read this I love ya buddy, I hope you live a long and prosperous life, you just made a good example for this scenario hahaha
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  17. Blackflag82's Avatar

    I have to wonder if the thinking is coming from this:

    "As things progress there will need to be a conceptual split between an authenticated video game achievement and an active leaderboard score entry.

    While it is true that an active TG leaderboard score entry must always be an authenticated achievement submission, it is not true that every authenticated achievement submission must be on an active TG leaderboard.

    This will become especially true of bounties and TG Event results in the future."

    Which if that is the case, I would encourage TG to develop a framework that allows for record keeping beyond the official scoreboard while also strengthening the historic aspect of the current scoreboard.

    ie. I can easily find the results of all the Track and Field World championships AND all the Track and Field World records

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  18. Excelliron's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    This should not happen at all. @admin staff says that this statement is untrue. Are you certain that this scenario actually takes place? @admin staff ARE YOU SURE that @sdwyer138 is mistaken?

    This exact thing happened to me on the Fast & Furious arcade track Golden Gate. I had to mention it on the 'Report Error' page to get it to show my time. This was probably last summer.
  19. sdwyer138's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace Hall


    This should not happen at all. @admin staff says that this statement is untrue. Are you certain that this scenario actually takes place? @admin staff ARE YOU SURE that @sdwyer138 is mistaken?

    I've posted about this specific example a couple times in the errors thread:


    https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/breakthru-ntsc/super-nintendo-entertainment-system


    Brendon submitted a 324K score that was accepted and appeared on the scoreboard. He later submitted a 640K score that was rejected. We would expect his 324K score to reappear, but it did not.


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  20. JJT_Defender's Avatar

    #1 We need representatives of TGSAP current Twin Galaxies member players who are active in uploading world records on all platforms. That can be good for TG not bad,

    #2. Separate the world gaming news from the great accomplishment of Twin Galaxies members world records.

    #3. Twin Galaxies members challenge the so-called world record of scores and times from other website but under Twin Galaxies rules. some of these wr's maybe false, done by cheating, or using a glitch or leeching. We can have forum on other world records from different sites.

    #4. Talk to the major gaming companies and developers about promoting and beta testing there games and new console systems by Twin Galaxies members from companies Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc

    #5. Online promoting and beta testing video games and console game systems by Twin Galaxies members



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