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Jace Hall
09-09-2019 at 11:16 PM
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  1. lexmark's Avatar

    So far I've read the "copy of demand" link.

    Also read "walter days testimony" via link.


    YAWN on both accounts!

    Looks to me that both accounts have missed the original point.


    john


    .


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  2. John73's Avatar

    Read a fair bit of it so far, and it's hilarious - it's not April 1st btw Billy

  3. The Evener's Avatar

    Highlights from my first read-through

    -Mitchell provides a statement where he claims that the 1,047,200 score that features prominently in the King of Kong wasn't actually submitted to TG (thereby single-handedly rendering the entire plot arc of the film moot - Wiebe was the champ the entire film!), therefore it can't be evaluated in the context of the dispute review/rule adherence when submitting to TG (now you see the tape, now you don't)

    -@RTM later entered the 1.047 score into the database to get back at Wiebe and "never consulted" Mitchell about this reckless decision

    -ASIDE: this claim is the latest head-scratcher to come from Mitchell. For YEARS (despite occasional rumblings) Mitchell has been hawking signed copies of the King of Kong DVDs regularly at his appearances; he opened an arcade in a Florida airport featuring the imagery from the King of Kong - a film that we now learn distorted the historical record by depicting Mitchell submitting a new WR when this went against Mitchell's own "high standards" for only submitting live game play scores to TG.

    -they quote David Race to support the assertion that the copies used in the dispute review were faked/forged through alteration of the "load screens" only and then splicing them into the gameplay; Race is late used in Section 10 as a scientific expert (now he can finally upload his original source footage of Mitchell's DK play-back from the IVGHOF event to the dispute thread!)

    -assertion that Dwayne Richard (probably) faked the tapes, based on his earlier interest in faking a submission using MAME for arcade submission

    -the tapes given to Hall were tampered with (re: the 1Up flash during Hall's review on Facebook live)

    -raft of statements from people associated with Boomer's 1.06 million score who were there in one variant or another; I think two said they saw Billy's final moments on DK, but it's ambiguous what they actually saw in one case

    -Robert Childs indicated that he created a (infamous) DK board swap video "for publicity" but didn't retrieve the original DK PCB from the car (he faked a swap with the same DK Jr board, claiming in his video that it was actually DK PCB upon remove) because "it wasn't necessary," arguing that his video was basically "satire" (thereby creating a new genre - promotional satire); ironically, later in the package there's a section devoted to all the work Mitchell did in making sure his DK PCB was "Nintendo certified"

    -Mitchell writes down claim that the late Pete Bouvier was there to personally witness the score, despite claiming at the IVGHOF event that Bouvier missed it

    -Child claims that TG lost all of these additional tapes documenting the Boomer score (new camera angles, etc)

    -Perfect Pac-Man witness statements (several pages)

    -vast majority of package is witness statements (pg. 37 - 156)

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    Updated 09-10-2019 at 04:23 AM by The Evener
  4. John73's Avatar

    If you are replying in expert testimony from the likes of Todd - then you are just grasping at straws - go at at him Jace/Guninness/TG - stick with it


  5. timmell's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by John73

    If you are replying in expert testimony from the likes of Todd - then you are just grasping at straws - go at at him Jace/Guninness/TG - stick with it



    TG/ Guinness don't need to "go at him". Bill is going at TG/ Guinness. How about don't back down.

    Bill thinks he has been treated unfairly, huh? Who would have thought....... Irony.

    IMO I have no idea the incentive for Bill to go after TG/ Guinness. If some how a decision is reversed, do you think Guinness will print Bill in their book again. Likely not.

    Updated 09-10-2019 at 06:24 AM by timmell (Spelling)
  6. Ninglendo's Avatar

    I will read the google docs more thoroughly when I get off work tonight but I have some takeaways from just skimming through it.

    First of all since TG was founded in the 80's one of the rules has always been if a score was proven to be falsified by a competitor then all of their scores were to be removed from the leaderboard whether the other scores were legit or not. It seems to me Billy wants special treatment (imagine that) for his Pac-Man score. Reinstating the score would go against the core rules TG has had since it was founded. I've been following this website for over half of my life and saw time and time again the same competitors getting special treatment so Billy demanding this doesn't surprise me in the least.

    Second, it's pretty clear to me that some of these testimonies were there just for the sake of getting more signatures. Case in point my former co-host's (Josh Houslander) testimony was just there to say a ref verified the score live before Billy showcased it at the Big Bang Event. This has always been public knowledge and what the testimony leaves out is that Todd Rogers verified the score. I wonder why they left that part out?

    Third, even though I consider Robbie a friend his analysis doesn't really prove much with "The Billy Strat" or whatever they called it. You are having a player with a vastly superior skill on the game mimic reckless strats to see if they can be done. That would be like having myself have a WR holder on a game I speedrun mimic strats on my behalf. What does that prove? The person with the higher skill than myself can do it?

    A lot of this seems to be smoke and mirrors. Like I said I will go through it more in depth when I get home tonight.

  7. Snowflake's Avatar

    Uh oh, Jace is in trouble. Did you see this evidence? As you can see, billy mitchel was clearly drinking a claw in the unedited photo taken at the time of his scores. And as we all know, there aint no law while you're drinknig the claw. Its an affirmative defense. Its no so much he didnt cheat, as he's allowed to cheat and above the law thanks to the claw.

    i sincerely hope jace was also drinking a claw when he banned him, thats jace's only hope.

  8. datagod's Avatar

    I was disappointed that all of Billy Mithchell's scores were removed especially his PacMan scores. I can understand Twin Galaxies point that if you are found guilty of cheating, all scores will be removed.

    I also see Billy's point of view that it cast his entire career in a bad light. I have seen people commenting here and there that they now question Bill's PacMan performance at Funspot. I can see that the Donkey Kong judgement has hurt Billy in other aspects.

    Perhaps it would have been better if Twin Galaxies had made it clear with the judgement that they are removing all scores based on policy, not because they have reason to believe they are invalid.

    As Jace has stated time and again, scores set during pre-TGSAP are considered valid until proven invalid.

    If people believe Billy cheated at PacMan based on the Twin Galaxies decision to remove him, and that is causing him harm, I can see the point of getting lawyers involved.

    I am hoping that the air can be cleared, both sides can come to an agreement and that all lawyers will be fired. Spend the money on making video games fun again.

    Just my two cents. My friendship with Billy has never been based on his video game skills.

  9. Snowflake's Avatar

    If people believe billy cheated at pacman based on twin galaxies removing him then maybe billy should blame himself and not further embarass himself with now more documented false claims against TG. you have a lawyers letter providing false information about whats in a publicly viewable dispute thread. thats so stupid and embarassing. at least with the scores, the evidence was hard to understand and people could fall back on "you werent there you dont know". with false claims about the dispute itself, well, thats just plain silly. Billy's really embarassing himself hard.

    theres even accusations of forgery. i can confirm that one, but if true, wow just wow.

  10. datagod's Avatar

    [QUOTE=Snowflake;bt47196]If people believe billy cheated at pacman based on twin galaxies removing him then maybe billy should blame himself "/QUOTE]

    Wow man, victim blame much?

    I say we take a closer look at the referrees involved at the time. Who were the people involved with the DK submissions? Do they all get a free pass? What about the people that KNEW there was problems with the submission but accepted it anyway, even promoting it?


  11. Snowflake's Avatar

    billy is no victim i am blaming no victims. however with that letter making false claims about twin galaxies, then jace and twin galaxiesare the victims at billy's hands. it is now billy who owes the apology

    i do agree on your second paragraph though. I've long said the refs need to be held accountable. mistakes happen, and if its just a small percentage of understandable mistakes out of a long honorable career, thats human. if its especially egregious mistakes however, such as oh i dont know, patrick outright stating he never even watched the tape and only approve it out of hopes of money and if he knew the money wuld never come would never have approved ,well thats pretty shameful. and the fact that he only regrets the decision due to not getting the money and makes excuses about how its only cause he's so poor and desperate speaks volumes to his character

    I think you might be under the false impression that two wrong make a right. there are plenty of wrongs and wrong doers doing those wrongs.

  12. starcrytas's Avatar

    You cheat a score and you get caught, you get banned and all scores removed.

    What's so hard to understand?


    There's even Donkey Kong Jr. that I made a dispute for.

    https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/182759-Dispute:-Matthew-Felix---Arcade---Donkey-Kong-Junior---Points---Player:-Billy-Mitchell---Score:-1,270,900?p=952904#post952904

  13. The Evener's Avatar

    Jace, would it be possible to reach out to the crew behind "The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters" to assess the claims that Mitchell made: namely, that the production team engaged in a conspiracy with Walter Day to falsely depict events in the film concerning the validation of Mitchell's 1.047m score? And at the same time, could you query the crew if they still retain unedited footage from the film playback of Mitchell's 1.047 score at Funspot? The DVD companion has a feature that shows gameplay with Mitchell and Wiebe side-by-side; access to the full footage used by the crew before editing, including the presence of screen transitions.

  14. Ninglendo's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener

    Jace, would it be possible to reach out to the crew behind "The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters" to assess the claims that Mitchell made: namely, that the production team engaged in a conspiracy with Walter Day to falsely depict events in the film concerning the validation of Mitchell's 1.047m score?

    That's something that doesn't make sense... why would Billy want a signed testimony from someone that conspired with film makers to falsely depict events? It's like he threw Walter under the bus and then later used him to proclaim his innocence.
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  15. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Evener

    Jace, would it be possible to reach out to the crew behind "The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters" to assess the claims that Mitchell made: namely, that the production team engaged in a conspiracy with Walter Day to falsely depict events in the film concerning the validation of Mitchell's 1.047m score? And at the same time, could you query the crew if they still retain unedited footage from the film playback of Mitchell's 1.047 score at Funspot? The DVD companion has a feature that shows gameplay with Mitchell and Wiebe side-by-side; access to the full footage used by the crew before editing, including the presence of screen transitions.


    Please place all questions into the dispute thread where they can be answered publicly and transparently for all to evaluate. Thank you.

  16. Blackflag82's Avatar

    Well, I've read through about 60 pages of their evidence package, and I don't think I can take much more of it. It is filled with so many problematic statements and misunderstandings of what was being argued throughout the dispute that it is laughable.

    Looks to me like TG shouldn't have much trouble backing their position in light of any of this.

    It did leave me wondering what David Race is supposed to be an expert of? (this is posted here because it is not a question that actually needs answering :) If I recall every time he came here with his "expert" evidence numerous people had to explain why his understanding of the foundation of what he was arguing was completely incorrect.

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  17. Snowflake's Avatar

    i jumped the gun on one thing in the thread so i dont want to post there again until iread it all. however i did read "walters" letter. i find it very distrubing. walter goes out of his way to be polite, but the walter in this letter lies and regulalry insults others. if i didnt know better i'd think someone else wrote it and just got walter to sign it without reading. I think it would be good to let walter know what he signed and ask him if he stands by it in particular i found most outrageous the attacks on @YesAffinity
    "Despite claims of objectivity, the third-party researcher for Twin Galaxies was Chris Gleed, a
    devoted TG member who was publicly hostile against Billy throughout the entire examination.
    He was among the loudest voices denouncing Billy in the public forums while claiming unbiased
    objectivity in his analysis of Billy's gameplay. Also, Gleed is a long-time member and supporter
    of the party who originally made the defamatory statements against Mitchell, Donkey Kong
    Forum. Hall decided to choose a member of Mitchell’s adversary group to be an “unbiased third
    party.” He was unfairly pre-biased against Billy and I believe that this bias had colored his
    decisions."

    not only is this factually false, its just so damn insulting. I remember being impressed with Chris tech skills and his unbiased nature. he was just a community member, fairly quiet at that, contributing what knowledge and skills he had. I see a few possilbities
    1. walter did write this, and if walter truly wrote such a hateful false paragraph then my view of him is changed immediately
    2. walter signed without reading. thats no excuse, but it is forgivable as well all make mistakes. please investigate and consider this possiblity
    3. its an outright forgery that watler never even signed, if so, truly shameful on team billy's part

  18. Jace Hall's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake

    i jumped the gun on one thing in the thread so i dont want to post there again until iread it all. however i did read "walters" letter. i find it very distrubing. walter goes out of his way to be polite, but the walter in this letter lies and regulalry insults others. if i didnt know better i'd think someone else wrote it and just got walter to sign it without reading. I think it would be good to let walter know what he signed and ask him if he stands by it in particular i found most outrageous the attacks on @YesAffinity
    "Despite claims of objectivity, the third-party researcher for Twin Galaxies was Chris Gleed, a
    devoted TG member who was publicly hostile against Billy throughout the entire examination.
    He was among the loudest voices denouncing Billy in the public forums while claiming unbiased
    objectivity in his analysis of Billy's gameplay. Also, Gleed is a long-time member and supporter
    of the party who originally made the defamatory statements against Mitchell, Donkey Kong
    Forum. Hall decided to choose a member of Mitchell’s adversary group to be an “unbiased third
    party.” He was unfairly pre-biased against Billy and I believe that this bias had colored his
    decisions."

    not only is this factually false, its just so damn insulting. I remember being impressed with Chris tech skills and his unbiased nature. he was just a community member, fairly quiet at that, contributing what knowledge and skills he had. I see a few possilbities
    1. walter did write this, and if walter truly wrote such a hateful false paragraph then my view of him is changed immediately
    2. walter signed without reading. thats no excuse, but it is forgivable as well all make mistakes. please investigate and consider this possiblity
    3. its an outright forgery that watler never even signed, if so, truly shameful on team billy's part


    Please post this and any other analytic commentary into the dispute thread so it can be preserved and considered.

  19. Snowflake's Avatar

    ill post everything i have all at once after reading everything.. using this thread as a sounding board. after i've read everything i'll copy over everything that hasnt been debunked or made redundant or in any other may made invalid to the dispute

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  20. Snowflake's Avatar

    lol theres a line that billy " would be more than willing to allow a judge to subpoena his records for this alleged shipment because it never occured"

    thats mighty kind of billy to ALLOW a judge to do that. Its nice to know that billy is a kind god who will allow the judges to do what they want.

    great scott, they really do think billy is a god

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